Hard time for working magicians...

Oct 10, 2007
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So with it still being early in the year places for magicians to work are tight, not to mention with America's crippled economy not much cash flow is going on.

I was wondering if any of you guys have been put off because of these reasons and what you have done to move yourself along. If not maybe you can give tips for the rest of us to get back into the game.

Seems like summer is the time when we can really get out there and find work but that seems to be taking longer and longer to get here. So what have you guys been doing? What are you planning on doing? Just a couple of questions to get this topic going. Feel free to talk about anything related.
 
Oct 10, 2007
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So umm i have to go for now, but i'll be back on tomorrow to talk somemore to you guyz, c ya later
 
Jan 4, 2009
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West Allis,WI
Progress

Well I feel the pain, I have been turned down at least 4 times over the last 2 months...not to mention phone calls from people who didnt call back. Its quite aggrevating, but lately the best thing I've done to help me, is to plan ahead. I'm trying to promote myself, charity events, the mall, basically anywhere its approriate to approach people. I'm actually planning on tagging my local city buses during rides that way it can possibly help me....or get me into trouble...lol
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
It shouldn't be too hard on most entertainers. People are more willing to spend money on something that takes their mind off all the troubles that have been going on in the economy.
 

Bizzaro

Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
464
10
Vegas
www.smappdooda.com
From Jan to april is generally a dead time for most performers. That's when you start planning and promoting for the summer.

Also, if you live in an area with already well established people, it's harder on those who don't have a client base.

As for me, I have a weekly show here in Vegas starting next month. The work is out there if you look hard enuff. (However, frustrating as hell when you can't find it.)
 
Like Bizzaro said: The early months are usually hard for us over all. However I think that the entertainment industry is recession proof. Sure people may not pay you all the money you are used to getting but in bad times people usually turn to good entertianment to help them forget about their lives just for a little bit.

All I see is opertunity.
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
I had a paid gig that was supposed to happen two weeks ago and they called an canceled a few days before because they said that they "the church organization" thought my price was too high.

Keep in mind I was only charging $100 for a 45 minute close up / small parlor type show. There was going to be 60 or so people there in the audience.
I thought my rate was more than fair and wouldn't drop the rate so I guess I lost out on that one. No big deal to me. I am not going to work hard and do shows for dirt cheap after I know I deserve at least that amount.

That might sound stupid to some of you newbie's who haven't done paid gigs yet but for others who know where I am coming from...you understand.
 
I'm with Bizarro; the work is definitely out there. The problem is (if you can call it a problem), you have to know where to look. But no, I don't think this is a hard time for working magicians. I think it's average to be honest, nothing great but nothing bad. My restaurant gig is going well, as are my private bookings.

Think about it, almost every day of the week there is at least some sort of function going on in your area. Be it a social function, charity event, corporate meeting, cocktail party, grand opening event, wedding, birthday party, etc. All of those events could be made better with entertainment. It's all about finding those events, then marketing to them, and wallah! A bit easier said than done, but not impossible by any means. There is always work out there, and the magicians that know how to find it are working.

Just my thoughts...
Steve

P.S. 2 industries that are recession proof; entertainment and alcohol. People need more entertainment during the bad times, and they tend to drink more as well. A proven fact. ;)
 

bd

Jun 26, 2008
584
2
San Francisco, California
I had a paid gig that was supposed to happen two weeks ago and they called an canceled a few days before because they said that they "the church organization" thought my price was too high.

Keep in mind I was only charging $100 for a 45 minute close up / small parlor type show. There was going to be 60 or so people there in the audience.
I thought my rate was more than fair and wouldn't drop the rate so I guess I lost out on that one. No big deal to me. I am not going to work hard and do shows for dirt cheap after I know I deserve at least that amount.

That might sound stupid to some of you newbie's who haven't done paid gigs yet but for others who know where I am coming from...you understand.

That's ridiculously expensive. At that rate, you're charging about $133 an hour - and unless you're some godlike performer, that's much, much more than you should be charging.

Amateur magicians should start off at about $20/$25 an hour, maybe a little more. Intermediate-skilled performers to professional hobbyists can charge a resonable price of anywhere from $40-$80 an hour. (For restaurant/small party settings)

If you are relying on magic as your main source of income (as an adult):

- Develop a stage show.
- Move to Las Vegas.
- Get an act.
- Consider the Magic Castle.
- Develop an immensely strong base of clientel.

Don't charge more than you're worth.


Ben
 
Jan 13, 2008
1,137
0
That's ridiculously expensive. At that rate, you're charging about $133 an hour - and unless you're some godlike performer, that's much, much more than you should be charging.

Amateur magicians should start off at about $20/$25 an hour, maybe a little more. Intermediate-skilled performers to professional hobbyists can charge a resonable price of anywhere from $40-$80 an hour. (For restaurant/small party settings)
That's actually more than reasonable for a novice performer, especially for a private gig like that.

The "godlike" (I'll assume you mean people on the scale of the T11 artists, just to have an actual reference point) performer would actually charge so much more than that. To use an actual example: In a previous chat with Justin Miller, prices was something that was brought up. For restaurants, he suggested $100-200 for 3 hours for someone just starting out (JUST STARTING OUT). Private gigs, you should obviously charge more ($100 for 45 minutes is more than reasonable). When asked about how much he'd charge for a private gig (the example was an even at a bar, or something like that), he said he definitely wouldn't take anything less than $500.

Suddenly $100 for a private gig doesn't seem like all that much.
 
That's ridiculously expensive. At that rate, you're charging about $133 an hour - and unless you're some godlike performer, that's much, much more than you should be charging.

Amateur magicians should start off at about $20/$25 an hour, maybe a little more. Intermediate-skilled performers to professional hobbyists can charge a resonable price of anywhere from $40-$80 an hour. (For restaurant/small party settings)

Ben
....

I think you are selling us a little short.

For Private Gigs I charge between $200-400p/h.
For Business/Larger Gigs I charge between $400-800p/h.
When I work for Charity, I usually pull in around $800-1200p/h.
 

Justin.Morris

Elite Member
Aug 31, 2007
2,794
888
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
Each area will differ significantly what each performer charges. For non profit organizations, I volunteer a lot. Hospitals, churches, and inner city ministries, have been a great place to work alongside. Sometimes they pay for my gas and other times not.
For a show, my personal rate is $300-$500 for a 30-60 min parlor style show (obviously depending on a lot of factors, # of people, location, personalized requests, travel time, accommodations etc).
Some places that is a lot, other places it is affordable.
But what Ben said is very true. "Don't charge more than you're worth.", but I would add, "Find out how much you're worth."
It was a hard thing for me to do to up my rates to be on par with the rest of the magic community in my area, but I haven't looked back.

I am not looking forward to watching how the economic situation will affect this area. Perhaps I will do a few more volunteer show to help out ;)

j
 
Sean Taylors 'Tip of the Week' might suit you ;)

Sean Taylor said:
This is my continued cat call. Whoever you are, wherever you are, you are probably not charging enough. I have told this story to a few of you so I apologise if you have heard it before. Its 100% true and illustrates the point.

On a Friday night in December I was working on the harbour for a small corporate client. These cruises can be a pain since you can't just leave but this one sounded fine. The boat left the dock at 5pm and returned at 8.30pm They were happy to take the stage show so its a nice big fee and so everyone's happy. I headed into town at 4pm and parked in a parking station Sussex St closest to the King's St Wharf. The evening cheap rate started at 6pm so I missed that - $70 to park my car. I went through 3 tolls to get to town M2, Lane Cove Tunnel and Bridge and 2 tolls back - total $18. It was pouring with rain and I mean pouring. My suit looked like I'd slept in it by the time I made the boat let alone the way home. Everyone was soaked through. Dry cleaning on Sat morning cost me $23. I give away 5 lotto tickets and use 10 pieces of art board and 5 coloured envelopes in the mental show - total cost around $20. So far we are up to $131.00 To add to this the cost of petrol, wear and tear on my car, a proportion of my insurance bill, phone calls, letter of confirmation etc. etc. and we are probably well over $150, maybe $200 simply for me turning up and doing the job. Now I charge accordingly of course but every dollar of this is coming out of MY MONEY.

Here is the advice and this is gold and worth more to you than anything you'll read today.
There is a global financial crises and it WILL get worse. You will have less work - guaranteed. Everything is getting more expensive. Food, petrol, clothing, electricity, tolls etc. etc. Ask your wife about the shopping. It's nuts.
DO NOT TRY TO GET WORK BY DISCOUNTING.
DO NOT CHARGE LESS.
CHARGE MORE OR YOU WILL NOT SURVIVE.

Do me a little favour. Next time you hear of a guy doing a job for $300 and yes, they are still out there, kick him in the pants for me and feel free to use this story. I had 2 or 3 calls in December to ask for help to replace people who had bailed on jobs at $300 and one of those was 4 hours in the city - the parking would be almost $300! If it was you, shame on you for charging so little and shame on you for bailing - what happened? Did you get another job for $350? Get a life!

Rant over
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
130 bucks an hour is pretty reasonable for most private gigs. The top guys who have more of a client base and also do Corporate shows tend to charge around 500-800 bucks an hour. Now that may seem like a lot to you, but when you think about it. Most high end companies CAN and WILL afford that. If they know your rep and how good you are. They will be willing to spend that kind of cash to keep their mind off of problems and everything else.

I'd say that most people can start charging more for their gigs once they get a good reputation and get a good enough client base. (which shouldn't take too long. Maybe a year or two at the most.)

25-50 bucks an hour? Good luck trying to pay bills. You're not a kid running a lemonade stand.
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
That's ridiculously expensive. At that rate, you're charging about $133 an hour - and unless you're some godlike performer, that's much, much more than you should be charging.

Amateur magicians should start off at about $20/$25 an hour, maybe a little more. Intermediate-skilled performers to professional hobbyists can charge a resonable price of anywhere from $40-$80 an hour. (For restaurant/small party settings)

If you are relying on magic as your main source of income (as an adult):

- Develop a stage show.
- Move to Las Vegas.
- Get an act.
- Consider the Magic Castle.
- Develop an immensely strong base of clientel.

Don't charge more than you're worth.


Ben

Ben...I agree with the point about not charging more than you are worth but time and time again I have talked with many top notch performers and even intermediate skilled magicians....not many people charge less than $100 bucks an hour. By no means do I depend on that money...I am a school teacher that makes decent money, however, I do like the extra spending cash to support my hobby. I feel bad if you are only charging 25 bucks an hour because you are probably worth than that. Think about your gas money alone to drive to some of these gigs. Ironing silks prior to a show, talking on the phone to the client...etc...it all adds up. Many of the magicians in my ring disagree with me and think that I am cheating myself already and should be up around 150-200 range. As far as my experience level...I have 9 years of magic under my belt but only 1 full year of paid gigs. I haven't had any other issues with people shelling out the 100 bucks for a one hour show or birthday party. In fact...I've had people thank me for that type of rate. That is why your reply..kind of made me chuckle. Don't take it the wrong way. Maybe you should up your price some.
 
Mar 25, 2008
225
0
Arkansas
Yeah. If you're a decent performer you're undercutting the going rate and hurting other performers.

As far as the economy affecting performers, I can tell you that corporate work right now is S L O W. I know several corporate guys who a sucking wind. It'll get better, but right now too many companies are getting beaten up for ANYTHING that might be construed as extravagant or extraneous.
Richard Kaufman has said that most of the guys he knows are 50% to 80% down in bookings right now. These are mostly regional guys who work everything from banquets to birthday parties in their local areas. Some people are simply going to have to augment their income with additional work.

Now, on the other hand, I know Kevin Spencer has been selling out their PAC tour. I also hear the Pendragon's current tour is going very well. Maybe people who aren't taking expensive vacations will spend some coin going to local live performances.
 
That's ridiculously expensive. At that rate, you're charging about $133 an hour - and unless you're some godlike performer, that's much, much more than you should be charging.

Amateur magicians should start off at about $20/$25 an hour, maybe a little more. Intermediate-skilled performers to professional hobbyists can charge a resonable price of anywhere from $40-$80 an hour. (For restaurant/small party settings)

If you are relying on magic as your main source of income (as an adult):

- Develop a stage show.
- Move to Las Vegas.
- Get an act.
- Consider the Magic Castle.
- Develop an immensely strong base of clientel.

Don't charge more than you're worth.


Ben


The hell are you talking about? 25$ an hour? For a magic act is ridiculously expensive? Are you high!? I know hack acts that do children shows that charge 200$ for 50 minutes. Balloon animals included, and they have work every other weekend.

Your amature cheesy costume characters that do magic acts for 30 minutes hired through a entertainment agency get paid (take home) between 40 to 60 dollars an hour depending on experience. Here's a hint newbie that isn't what the agency is charging the client. That's what the entertainer is bringing home! That means the client is paying probably close to 250 to 300 an hour.

Now I know talking about our rates as magicians are a bit of a taboo subject. The last thing we need is some one undercutting us blah blah blah. But 25$ an hour is a joke. You must not do a lot of real magic shows for real people.
That or you are in need of a serious reality check.

Also consider the psychology of prices. Take a Toyota and a Mercedes Benz. Both are cars. They both drive. They both get you from point A to point B. Really the only diffrence between the two is about 80,000$. Why? Bells and whistles removed, it's the name you're buying. If you are loyal to Mercedes Benz then you wouldn't buy a new one for 20,000$. You'd probably wonder what was wrong with it.

Same thing applies to us as magicians. Low prices make a statement about the quality of the act. IF you book a 25 dollar magician you're going to get just that.... 25$ worth of magic. Also I guess it really also depends too on what kind of material you do in your act. If I am doing my fire eating, or sword swallowing I obviously will charge more than if I was booked to do card tricks behind a bar since I'm pretty much risking my own life each time I do those stunts.

Lets do a reality check. Your so called "god-like" performers are getting paid around 10K a show. Sigfried and Roy would get around 100K for a single appearance. (so I've heard) Lance Burton I believe has a contract for 10 mil in 10 years.

Your AVERAGE birthday party kids magician usually charges around 100-200$ for an hour.

Your Trade Show magicians 5 to 10K for the event. Or like 1 to 2K a day.

Now You're about right on resteraunts. Most resteraunt jobs will only pay 60-80$ a night for your efforts. The real money there are made in tips. But line up three or four resteraunt gigs in a week and you've got a good paycheck.

You don't have to move to Vegas to be a pro. I think you're being a bit extreme with that. The Magic Castle or Vegas certainly help, and they are nice things to have on your resume but they aren't the be all end all of working professionals.

If you want to be a working professional then you just need to build a book of business, filled with clients. When you can suplement your income by doing magic shows then you'll know you're on the right track. When you can pay your bills and rent by doing magic then you know you've made it. You may not be the next Criss Angel... but you'll know you are a working pro.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
That's ridiculously expensive. At that rate, you're charging about $133 an hour - and unless you're some godlike performer, that's much, much more than you should be charging.

Amateur magicians should start off at about $20/$25 an hour, maybe a little more. Intermediate-skilled performers to professional hobbyists can charge a resonable price of anywhere from $40-$80 an hour. (For restaurant/small party settings)

If you are relying on magic as your main source of income (as an adult):

- Develop a stage show.
- Move to Las Vegas.
- Get an act.
- Consider the Magic Castle.
- Develop an immensely strong base of clientel.

Don't charge more than you're worth.


Ben

That's a pretty laughable statement. Move to Las Vegas. I'd say that moving to Las Vegas is only for people who have big gigs and it would be REALLY hard for a person without a rep to get a job in Vegas due to it being THE LAND OF MAGICIANS. The magic Castle is fine and dandy if you want it. I know a few top pros who aren't members. David Copperfield is one of them. It's a nice place to get gigs at but it's not THE place.

You also don't need an immensely strong clientele to charge 100 bucks an hour.

Telling somebody to charge 25-40 bucks an hour for private gigs is pretty much setting them up for failure and making it hard for them to pay bills. Plus people will look at what you charge. They will say "25 bucks is cheap, he must be a little kid who just started." rather than "100 bucks is a reasonable price and it means he must know what he/she is doing." Plus at 25 bucks an hour. Prepare to be hired as a Kids magician nonstop and not end up with higher paying better gigs.
 
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