Lessons Learned From Legerdemain - Lesson #4

[Tally]

Lessons Learned From Legerdemain

Introduction
One month of the school year has passed. Eight more months; need to make the best of it.

Lesson #4 – You Don’t Need School to Be Successful
Let me tell you a story.
Ms. Jakhsen asked a student if he had any “academic aspirations.” The student said “No” with an uncertain voice. The teacher was surprised at his unwillingness to study in school. I decided then to make my voice heard. “You don’t need academic aspirations to be successful,” I said. Ms. Jahksen was surprised because she thought I was trying to discourage students to quit on school. The teacher asked if I had any academic aspirations. Of course, I said “No.” We ended our little intense argument before it got any worse.

But Ms. Jakhsen is one of the most polite teachers I have met in my ten years of school. She cares much for her students and I can tell she enjoys teaching students mathematics.

Final Thoughts
Anyone who has ever told you you need school to be successful, they are no further from the truth. YOU DO NOT NEED SCHOOL TO BE SUCCESSFUL! Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did not finish college and now own two of the biggest businesses in the world (Microsoft and Pixar). They are human, we are human; why can we not do the same as they have?

“School kills creativity” said Ken Robinson (education specialist). Schools prioritize mathematics and science over arts. For those who want to dance or sing or draw or create something beautiful. School is slowly destroying that dream.

The people at school have a mentality and they do not think about great things. I hate coming to school because when I hear people talk negative, it gets into my head. The only way to dream big and think like a winner is to hang out with people who dream big and are winners.

Most of the things students learn in school are not needed in the real world – why learn it? Student just need to finish school as soon as possible and get out into the real world so they can accomplish greater things rather than learning to obey and working a nine to five job.

“Formal education for the players [actors] is not only useless, but harmful.” – David Mamet

Written by Anthony Nguyen
Edited by Steve Einhorn

 

[DamianS1]

I couldn't agree more.

 

[jok3r]

that's why I homeschool.

The education system is so messed up its crazy.

 

[Llero]

YOU DO NOT NEED SCHOOL TO BE SUCCESSFUL! Bill Gates and Steve Jobs did not finish college and now own two of the biggest businesses in the world (Microsoft and Pixar). They are human, we are human; why can we not do the same as they have?

Hahahahah. Most uninformed post ever. Bill Gates went to Harvard, obviously not a small name school, and it takes quite a bit effort to get in. He then dropped out of Harvard, not because he couldn't complete it, but because they didn't have a program that was advanced as he was. He scored a 1590 out of 1600 on the SAT, which, at the time, indicated an IQ of about 170.

He then followed up with some seriously unscrupulous business practices. The man is something of a genius, whether or not you like him.

As for Jobs, he attended Reed, another school that is notoriously difficult to get in to. As of last year, their average unweighted GPA was a 3.9, and their average SAT scores were all in the 700-per-category range. He dropped out to work on the Mac, but he kept auditing classes. He didn't leave the school altogether, he kept going.

Ignore this thread please. School, particularly college, does not stifle creativity. In fact, college campuses are some of the most scientifically and artistically charged places on the planet, which is something you would realize had you been to a college where anything was happening. There are art schools, schools of music, schools of technology. . . there is, quite literally, something for everyone, and if you skip that phase of your life, you're not only stifling your own chance to grow, you're denying yourself some of the most memorable experiences and friends that you might ever have.

 

[Tally]

I said that they did not finish college, I did not say they never went to college. But there are people like Keith Otto who makes 52 million a year (owns UFC) and he lives an awesome life.

I'm saying people do not NEED school. Some people do need school. But it seems to me like a lot of people think they need school to get somewhere in life - false.

 

[RickEverhart]

Coming from a teacher's perspective I'm greatly disappointed to hear such nonsense.

Without teachers these people would never have learned to sound out letters,read, write, comprehend text, interact socially with others properly, learn to think creatively, taken advanced classes,etc. I'm sure the list could go on forever.

Is there something wrong with today's education system? Yes and No. Should teachers be held accountable for their students and what they learn....yes...by all means. But should there be state testing to the point that all teachers get to do now days is teach these youngsters how to pass a state level test? Heck no. It makes my job less fun.

Is creativity vanishing from the schools? Possibly in some aspects because of the demand to pass the tests that all of us educators hate to give. Are there opportunities for the arts, acting, etc. ? I guess it depends on your school district and what they offer. Our's is outstanding.

Is school funding by property taxes unconstitutional in our states? Yes. It is a huge ordeal here in Ohio.

Am I against homeschooling? Yes because a lot of times these parents (not all but most) claim to home school their children and then when it comes time to see what they kids know....it is next to nothing. They usually get placed back in public education only to find out that they are now a year or even more behind academically. A lot of times homeschooling is simply the parent giving the child the book and telling little Johnny to go do exercises 1-20.

I do see the point that school is not for everyone and not all kids have an enjoyable experience throughout their childhood and into their teens. This could have been attributed to the teachers they had, the school system, the demographics, or many other reasons.

Can people become successful without school? Sure, look at some of the Amish populations who tend to quit school after 8th grade. There are also a select few adults in today's society who may not have even graduated high school who are now famous or millionaires. The odds are against you though. Kids need school to grow up and become a productive citizen in today's society.

Ok. I'll get off the soap box now.

P.S. Lesson From Mr. T "Don't be a FOOL...stay in School!!!" Those of you who are my age will actually get that.

 

[RickEverhart]

"But it seems to me like a lot of people think they need school to get somewhere in life - false.

This cracks me up. Are you serious???

Most people need an education to get a decent job and are able to perform productively,effectively, and efficiently. Whether it is pouring concrete and filling out paper work for the billing or a doctor performing brain surgery.

 

[praetoritevong]

Errr... I can see why someone would argue this perspective, but I would regard it as amongst the more misguided advice on these boards.

Quoting David Mamet in this instance is entirely inappropriate. You're assuming that what holds for actors also holds for the rest of humanity, which is a fallacy of composition (one thing I have learned, is to avoid fallacies of argument when contending my point). Coming from someone who works as a professional actor, and who has read Mamet's True and False, you're quoting him entirely out of context here. Mamet contends that the bulk of acting education, with particular regard to Stanislavski's Method, is useless when it comes to creating realistic and powerful performances. I could extrapolate, but the details of actor training isn't really relevant here.

To whoever it was who said that the education system is messed up: You still have one of the better education systems in existence today. Go to Ghana, try getting an education there, and then come back and complain about the US.

For every one of your guys who managed to succeed without completing their education, I could name a thousand who did, and were better off because of it. I mean no offense in any of this post, but it hardly seems like a convincing argument written by someone still in school, who has not experienced the success or the life he is talking about, using the odd example and quotes taken out of context.

 

[Morgan B]

It is NO coincidence that some of your favourite posters are the most educated on this forum. Actually, many of the magicians you look up to have University degrees or College Diplomas.

School, especially the higher levels of learning, teach you how to critically think…a skill that is lacking by many in this forum. Critically thinking about magic, is very different that forming an opinion based off of personal experience.

Outside of magic – a high school dropout will earn about $12 000 less , on average, a year for their lives than a high school graduate…while a college graduate will easily double their income, and if you focus on a career in University, like teacher, doctor, lawyer – then you can easily triple that. In short, education is very important in today’s society.

50 years ago – you could get a job easy even if you dropped out…then you needed to at least graduate high school to get a good job…then college/university e was the minimum level to write your own ticket…now you can a job easy if you have a Masters…so look at the trend? Is going down in education, or up?

It is in fact a part of the function of education to help us escape, not from our own time -- for we are bound by that -- but from the intellectual and emotional limitations of our time.
T.S. Eliot

Intelligence plus character--that is the goal of true education.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[jok3r]

i still agree with the original point.

Some people need school, some people don't.

For alot of people school makes them successful, for alot of people its a waste of time.

Its foolish to say, you have to have school.
But its also foolish to say, no one needs school.

im set on learning things i want to learn, not learn how to solve linear equations.

If im not going into a field that requires extensive math, then why am i learning it?
because the state said i had too?
B.S.

There are tons of people who are successful because of that one special teacher who taught them alot.


Thats what i have to say, im not trying to argue with anyone

 

[praetoritevong]

i still agree with the original point.

Some people need school, some people don't.

For alot of people school makes them successful, for alot of people its a waste of time.

Its foolish to say, you have to have school.
But its also foolish to say, no one needs school.

im set on learning things i want to learn, not learn how to solve linear equations.

If im not going into a field that requires extensive math, then why am i learning it?
because the state said i had too?
B.S.

There are tons of people who are successful because of that one special teacher who taught them alot.


Thats what i have to say, im not trying to argue with anyone

Again, I can see where you're coming from. I'd like to throw a few thoughts out there to you, let me know what you think.

1) You will probably never use extensive maths in your life. You will probably never use calculus again. Pure mathematics will not be your first, only, and best love. So why are you learning it? I can think of a few reasons.

Firstly: You'd be surprised how much this stuff does come up. And you never know where you'll end up. I know I was certainly surprised to see that I was, in fact, using calculus, at uni.

Secondly: Besides the direct maths, which is not the point, you're learning problem solving skills. You're learning logical reasoning skills. When you write an essay, you're learning communication skills. Judging by many posters here, they could do with less magic time and more english class time. Judging by many magic performances posted, the whole communication thing isn't coming along too well.

Thirdly: As hinted earlier... Because you never know what, in life, will capture your attention. I work as a professional actor, but only decided that I would like to do so three years ago. It was only because I was exposed to it, fortunately, that I realised how much I loved it. It is not easy to decide what to do with our lives, especially at such a young age. Anything is helpful, even if it definitively tells you, as was the case with me and maths, what you don't want to do.

2) It's a waste of time only if you stop thinking about what you're learning. Not to say that everyone needs school to do well. One of my former directors was labelled 'unteachable' and never finished secondary school. He now works in Hollywood, and a good number of you have probably seen his films. But, for the majority of people, I think a lot underestimate how much school teaches you. I speak, for example, about reading and writing. Where would you be without that? You cannot say that reading and writing is unimportant, no matter what you want to do. How about, at the very least, basic arithmetic? How about learning to get along with other people? Making friends? As mentioned before - social aspects are some of the weakest aspects of many magicians' lives, from observation.

Then, we get away from the essentials. History. It does not take a genius to know the importance of understanding history. Why things happened, and how. The cliché that history repeats comes to mind.

Art. How about learning about creative expression? No, you will never need to know, specifically, in all likelihood, that Wassily Kandinsky was born in 1866 in Moscow, and had his Blue Rider Exhibition in 1914. But learning to appreciate art? And expressing yourself creatively, in various formats? Priceless.

I could go on, but I'm sure what I'm getting at is clear.

 

[RickEverhart]

Nicely put Prae. I think it is easier to understand from our stand point because we are quite a bit older than most of these posters and we've been through a lot in life thus far.

 

[Tally]

I only wrote this article to bring up something interesting to think about, but am gladly to prove my point as well as accept other point of views.

Reverhart: I found it interesting that when I talked with some of my teachers, they agreed on the fact that school is not a necessity for success (whatever success means to you). And yes the odds are against me. But my life's dream is becoming the best the magician the world has ever known (a huge stretch, yes) and I do not find school to be important chasing that dream. But you have brought up good points.

Praetoritevong: "Lessons Learned" is mainly from my acting and magic experience, and Mamet is talking about acting in general, but I believe it should apply to any art form.
Yes, I do believe you need school to a certain point. 6th grade is good enough to learn all the basics, but I also understand that without school, we won't have a big middle class and the middle class makes a country stable. This year, I have enjoyed school more than any other year, yet I still stand by the idea that school is not for me. Thank you for reading.

Morgician: I'm not looking for just a job. I"m looking to be the best magician the world has seen. But I do understand where you are coming from. Lots of people have told me that I and I respect that belief.

Jok3r: Thank you for supporting the idea.

 

[Morgan B]

When I was younger, I may not have seen the value of education either...I still believe in chasing the dream, but I also realize how learning to learn (the educational process) is a valuable tool in achieving any dream.

Sure, perhaps education is not a direct step on a path of every goal...but their is not one goal that can't be enhanced my education in general.

I took Psychology is school, because I loved the mind and really...I thought it would help my magic. Turns out, it helped my magic...but MANY other aspects of my life.

The real issue is the message this post seems to give - if you want to achieve a dream unrelated to school....well, don't go to school? What goal is unrelated to higher learning - if you think magic, you are wrong.

When I was young, I wanted to be a pro basketball player - I did everything in my power...went to camps, took 100 freethrows a day, lifted weights, read books, watched film...I did it all to reach that goal - but I didn't make it. Imagine I gave up on education to focus on that...where would I be now.

What is my point - the odds of achieving a goal can be low...and that is not to say don't shoot for the moon...but if you blow up all your star on your way...where will you land? Education gives you options.

I don't think you have to sacrifice education to obtain your dreams - if anything, it will help.

 

[Tally]

Well, let's say you aren't enthusiastic about math now, and somehow interested in it in the future It's much more fun to learn it later and you will learn more because you are enthusiastic about it.

Why did you stop reaching for that basketball dream. You could have just picked yourself back up and worked even harder.

True, education will help, but not much.

 

[Morgan B]

I stopped reaching for my hoop dreams because of what are called diminishing returns. People only have a given propencity to grow...it isn't infinite, or what you put in is what you get out - so just work harder. You get to a point where extra effort yields maximum results - I went as far with it as I felt I could, in my given circumstance and ability...but I don't miss it...I have up my hoop dreams and picked up a new hobby I wanted to excel at. Magic. I have had great success with it, and am glad I made it part of my life.

As for your outlook on education...highschool education shouldn't count as education, as it is a hard thing to do to anyone - post secondary is an amazing experience...think of it this way:

High school is free - and nobody wants to go...people pay big bucks to go to post secondary...and nobody regrets finishing.

 

[jok3r]

Again, I can see where you're coming from. I'd like to throw a few thoughts out there to you, let me know what you think.

1) You will probably never use extensive maths in your life. You will probably never use calculus again. Pure mathematics will not be your first, only, and best love. So why are you learning it? I can think of a few reasons.

Firstly: You'd be surprised how much this stuff does come up. And you never know where you'll end up. I know I was certainly surprised to see that I was, in fact, using calculus, at uni.

Secondly: Besides the direct maths, which is not the point, you're learning problem solving skills. You're learning logical reasoning skills. When you write an essay, you're learning communication skills. Judging by many posters here, they could do with less magic time and more english class time. Judging by many magic performances posted, the whole communication thing isn't coming along too well.

Thirdly: As hinted earlier... Because you never know what, in life, will capture your attention. I work as a professional actor, but only decided that I would like to do so three years ago. It was only because I was exposed to it, fortunately, that I realised how much I loved it. It is not easy to decide what to do with our lives, especially at such a young age. Anything is helpful, even if it definitively tells you, as was the case with me and maths, what you don't want to do.

2) It's a waste of time only if you stop thinking about what you're learning. Not to say that everyone needs school to do well. One of my former directors was labelled 'unteachable' and never finished secondary school. He now works in Hollywood, and a good number of you have probably seen his films. But, for the majority of people, I think a lot underestimate how much school teaches you. I speak, for example, about reading and writing. Where would you be without that? You cannot say that reading and writing is unimportant, no matter what you want to do. How about, at the very least, basic arithmetic? How about learning to get along with other people? Making friends? As mentioned before - social aspects are some of the weakest aspects of many magicians' lives, from observation.

Then, we get away from the essentials. History. It does not take a genius to know the importance of understanding history. Why things happened, and how. The cliché that history repeats comes to mind.

Art. How about learning about creative expression? No, you will never need to know, specifically, in all likelihood, that Wassily Kandinsky was born in 1866 in Moscow, and had his Blue Rider Exhibition in 1914. But learning to appreciate art? And expressing yourself creatively, in various formats? Priceless.

I could go on, but I'm sure what I'm getting at is clear.

Everything you said was true, which is why this is such a tough argument.
Both sides are ultimately right in the end.

I think my real point is that, in my experience, in my education system. You have very little freedom on what you can learn.

I know this is different in other schools, because of size and funds.

Me personally, basketball is my first love, and cards are becoming my second.
(besides jesus=])

The way my mind works says, there's no reason you can't do something you love for the rest of your life.
you can throw every example you want at me, there is always a way.
If your passion is to build skyscrapers, then yes you need lots of math.

But our education system has not only been dubbed done, but its a mold that not everyone fits into.

You cant take 2000 different kids, and expect them to learn the same way.

I didn't really make a point there, but i see both sides.
Im just speaking about my personal life.

This thread was saying

"you don't need school to be successful"

Thats true, thats pretty much the bottom line.

 

[jok3r]

When I was younger, I may not have seen the value of education either...I still believe in chasing the dream, but I also realize how learning to learn (the educational process) is a valuable tool in achieving any dream.

Sure, perhaps education is not a direct step on a path of every goal...but their is not one goal that can't be enhanced my education in general.

I took Psychology is school, because I loved the mind and really...I thought it would help my magic. Turns out, it helped my magic...but MANY other aspects of my life.

The real issue is the message this post seems to give - if you want to achieve a dream unrelated to school....well, don't go to school? What goal is unrelated to higher learning - if you think magic, you are wrong.

When I was young, I wanted to be a pro basketball player - I did everything in my power...went to camps, took 100 freethrows a day, lifted weights, read books, watched film...I did it all to reach that goal - but I didn't make it. Imagine I gave up on education to focus on that...where would I be now.

What is my point - the odds of achieving a goal can be low...and that is not to say don't shoot for the moon...but if you blow up all your star on your way...where will you land? Education gives you options.

I don't think you have to sacrifice education to obtain your dreams - if anything, it will help.

Why did you give up?

I have the same dream.

I may not get drafted right out of college, ill go to Europe. There's always a way you just have to believe.
Every person that tells me i cant makes me work harder.

{great now i sound like opra}

Its funny, im fascinated by the human mind too.
and we both like basketball

weird

 

[Morgan B]

Vince Lombardi said it best...something like, sometimes you don't lose the game, you just run out of time.

You get to a point where you realize that you got to move on - I once had hops, now hopes - my goals changed, so my dream changed. Don't think of it as giving up - think of it as the maturity to recognize another door opened with more potential....and so on and so on.

Keep dreaming big.

 

[jok3r]

good words..