This topic is BEAT to death - here is the thing, I think that leaning one way OR the other is the problem. Because as a society we have already defined what common art is - paintings, music, etc - this apparently leave no room for "new" art.
If I draw a picture of a stickman - that is not art - but the Mona Lisa is - very different right?
So what defines are - well - it has to have meaning to someone other than the artist, it sometimes has a message, it sometimes takes much skill...it varies - as real art should.
Is magic an ART? That depends - we have heard of performance art - but really - magic as a whole...I don't really think it is an art. It can be done in artful ways - like juggling. Sometimes juggling is just juggling - and sometimes it can look beautiful and artistic...but someone can watch the clip below and say "it is just juggling to music" or "that is really artistic" - so this is art - it is up to the person watching it - NOT the person doing it, to make that decision.
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8f8drk5Urw&feature=related
some will argue that Raymond Craft is an artist
http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW-3KwXpkkM
but are all shadow puppets art - because I do a mean dog and butterfly?
I think the way magic is done by most - it is not artistic - this doesn't make it NOT an art - but in my defintion - the standard performance are NOT artistic. Just because it takes skill, at least to me, doesn't make it an "art" - as it takes skill to perform surgery...I wouldn't call that art - nor would I call a skilled swimmer or diver an artist. Performer...maybe.
Read what Ortiz says on the matter - as he talks about how we are the only people that use the word ART - hell...even painters, musicians, and so on...hardly use that word - they use the word CRAFT.
If you are going to start calling magic an "art" then you better be an artistic magician - or you are just doing magic - a great craft.
If you don't agree with this - I have an awesome picture I did in pencil crayon of a tree beside a house...it's a ONE of a kind work of art, I even stayed in the lines - I will sell it to you for a real cheap price compared to other million dollor works of art - it is yours CardGuy90, all you have to do is realized that just because someone is doing something that CAN be considered artistic - doesn't make it art - and my "art" work is yours!
MAGIC CAN be an ARTISTIC - but it isn't an ART. However, if you want to believe you are...feel free, but I would love to see your "art" work, as my guess is it's about as artistic as my pencil crayon drawing!
wow - in typing my post - 10 posts were done - so I want to reply to this as an add on:
"Art" is defined as...the products of human creativity
This is why we call the T11 guys the Theory 11 artists - so if you are creating something new...and not just COPYING something you learnt - you may call yourself an artist. Just because you say different presentations, or use different colour props - doesn't make you an artist.
Art can take different forms - but again - this leads to the concept - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - you can show me all the art you want - I can see it as what it is...music, juggling, a card trick, a drawing...or I can identify it as art. This is a strong thing of art - people don't tell you it's art, you choose to see it that way.
This goes for "cardistry" just because it has the root word "artistry" in it - doesn't make it art - someone has to see it as that, as they can also see it as "you moving the cards around to F'n fast".
Shake your heads - as we are starting to take ourselves TOO seriously. Something artistic has GREAT value too - good luck selling a card trick for more than $50 bucks - when you can't buy an real piece of art work for less than a few G's!
Magic is great - it CAN be artistic when done that way, it is a great craft and has potential - but if you want to argue it's an art - then step up and say what YOU do to make it art?
The original post that was used to start this thread was mine. Weird seeing it resurrected from the dead and shipped to new territory. A bit like Dracula.
Not sure why it needs to be dragged here with my footnote included about a summer holiday that has been and gone for about 2 years - but I still think it stands, at least in my mind, too many people just call what they do in magic an Art because it ups their creative status a million-fold.
And art, whatever it can be defined as, isn't much to do with trickery. Magic is entertainment and I don't think entertainment can be considered Art.
But this just leads to loads of fluffy responses, mine included, about what art is or isn't. My point was that we should call it Art to specs, because it helps to fuel the big lie of magic, but don't for one moment consider yourself an Artiste.
Why should you? Because of your patter or your DL or the way you interact with a spec?
Once it becomes an Art, everyone gets a really serious face when they talk about magic, like they're chewing on a wasp or something. The fun is seeing it for what it is, which is a con. That's the essence of magic.
I don't mean any offense by saying it's not Art - and none should be taken, but sometimes the way people talk in such heightened almighty language about the Art of Magic just seems a bit juvenile.
Show me a proud con man magician trickster anyday, rather than someone on YouTube saying what they do is Art, from their bedroom, with a webcam pointing at their Tally's. That's a bit of an exaggeration to end with, but I needed a strong statement to end my post.
magic is... what ever you want it to be and what ever you make of it. It makes no difference what you call it, but how you treat it.