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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by CardGuy90, Oct 28, 2008.
I think our biggest problem is that we are trying to define art :/
lol i totally agree with what you say 110 %... no 150%. Cept one thing, i said the exact same thing before if you read up. I said that...
Magic is an art if you are creative and do amazing things with it, not if you just do the common things that everyone does or if you just learn a magicians teachings and go out and perform it without any modifications or variations... that is not an art... thats a mirror.
But to be frank... i draw awesome stick figures. lol
The one thing i notice about many individuals in these forums is that they can never finish a topic, nor a post without attacking someone. Not me because it rarely happens to me. But if you look up none of us said we are the artist, we simply stated that magic can be an art if you are creative with it and do amazing things with it, not the norm. Yet, chivalry is the nature of human existence.
Okay as someone just said...
THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN BEATEN TO DEATH
wow - in typing my post - 10 posts were done - so I want to reply to this as an add on:
"Art" is defined as...the products of human creativity
This is why we call the T11 guys the Theory 11 artists - so if you are creating something new...and not just COPYING something you learnt - you may call yourself an artist. Just because you say different presentations, or use different colour props - doesn't make you an artist.
Art can take different forms - but again - this leads to the concept - Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - you can show me all the art you want - I can see it as what it is...music, juggling, a card trick, a drawing...or I can identify it as art. This is a strong thing of art - people don't tell you it's art, you choose to see it that way.
This goes for "cardistry" just because it has the root word "artistry" in it - doesn't make it art - someone has to see it as that, as they can also see it as "you moving the cards around to F'n fast".
Shake your heads - as we are starting to take ourselves TOO seriously. Something artistic has GREAT value too - good luck selling a card trick for more than $50 bucks - when you can't buy an real piece of art work for less than a few G's!
Magic is great - it CAN be artistic when done that way, it is a great craft and has potential - but if you want to argue it's an art - then step up and say what YOU do to make it art?
In CONCLUSION I guess...I have to mail my crappy picture of house/tree to CardGuy and:
Magic IS/CAN BE/SHOULD BE/ISN'T/COULD BE/WON'T BE/ art!
In magic - YOU are the art...or not. However, arguing over if it is or isn't - doesn't make it art.
Go make it art - let people tell you it is...if you do an impression, and you have to tell people WHO you are impersonating, you are sucky at it.
If you do magic and have to tell people it is an art...guess what?
So to me - magic is not an art - but it can be done, by the person who chooses that path, in an artisic way.
There - an oxymoron...isn't that poetic art?
I get you 150% man but read up to what we write... your saying EXACTLY what me and others are saying. No ones saying there artists. Look up at what were saying.
I agree 100% with morgician.
Im leaning towards .........magic is not an art. But it can be if you make it look artistic.
Theres a difference between this.....
I would personally call it a performing art. That is a whole new meaning to the word "art".
The original post that was used to start this thread was mine. Weird seeing it resurrected from the dead and shipped to new territory. A bit like Dracula.
Not sure why it needs to be dragged here with my footnote included about a summer holiday that has been and gone for about 2 years - but I still think it stands, at least in my mind, too many people just call what they do in magic an Art because it ups their creative status a million-fold.
And art, whatever it can be defined as, isn't much to do with trickery. Magic is entertainment and I don't think entertainment can be considered Art.
But this just leads to loads of fluffy responses, mine included, about what art is or isn't. My point was that we should call it Art to specs, because it helps to fuel the big lie of magic, but don't for one moment consider yourself an Artiste.
Why should you? Because of your patter or your DL or the way you interact with a spec?
Once it becomes an Art, everyone gets a really serious face when they talk about magic, like they're chewing on a wasp or something. The fun is seeing it for what it is, which is a con. That's the essence of magic.
I don't mean any offense by saying it's not Art - and none should be taken, but sometimes the way people talk in such heightened almighty language about the Art of Magic just seems a bit juvenile.
Show me a proud con man magician trickster anyday, rather than someone on YouTube saying what they do is Art, from their bedroom, with a webcam pointing at their Tally's. That's a bit of an exaggeration to end with, but I needed a strong statement to end my post.
exactlly why I hate ellusionist.
A magician uses skills that require public performance, which turns a performance into an art, "performing art".
Lmao i love your ending statement
Nah definately understand fully what your saying. I guess everyone just has there own views that will never change, including mine and yours.
I remember your name from somewhere, but not here.... hmmmmm
O.K. so my job at work is to sell cellphones... I do walkaround shows on the side.
Selling cellphones takes skill, but it's hardly an art.
If you are going to say magic is an art by referring to what Joe said in his dvd then you'r on the right track.
As a salesman, you do not have to convince someone of your lie, because you don't lie... You tell them facts that will influence their decision on buying the product... If you lie, they come back very pissed off.
Magic is an art because it is O.K. to enjoy something that is not real giving it qualities of an art. Magic is entertainment... Entertainment is a form of art... Art is entertaining... Magic is entertaining.
Selling cellphones or selling anything for that matter... shaving, running, driving to work, being a judge in an art show... These are all NOT ARTISTIC.
PERFORMING illusions, singing, dancing, drawing, painting, writing books... These ARE ARTISTIC.
So I think magic is an art, and these are the reasons above. I hope you agree.
And shame on you for bring Ellus... cough... cough... problems into these forums, SHAME ON YOU!
Daz - funny ending for sure
Corey - flawed logic for sure
i think that a lot of people, younger people as it tends to be, who are getting into magic do it by watching youtube tutorials and buying every effect off of E and T11 and as it has been said mirroring them. Personally i didn't have as much respect for magic until i began working on creating effects and ideas on my own, it is easy to learn the mechanics of a trick and preform it with a lack of showmanship, it is not easy to develop a concept, and work out a method and wrap it up in a good performance to make others experience magic and not just see a trick and that is why magic is an art
magic is... what ever you want it to be and what ever you make of it. It makes no difference what you call it, but how you treat it.
Morgician: "The standard performance is not artistic."
This is exactly right. Call it what you like.
Perhaps this is because of my theatrical roots, but I consider magic an art, I try to treat it like one, and I present it as an elegant one.