Magical > technical?

[Mith]

Well first of all let me explain the title. As ive experienced myself and seen many other magicians aswell, some of the biggest reactions come from tricks extremely simple and wich have made me wonder, if a much more simple sleight of hand moves just give bigger reactions because of its simplicity for example i get a way better reaction doing a simple color change than doing D&D subway. I'd just like to make a discussion about your opinion about this, or if am wrong you may correct me. If this has ever happened to you, please share your experience and I hope to make this a very interesting discusssion .
So what do YOU think, a more simple effect is better that a really difficult sleigt of hand move?
-Christian

 

[Partajeesus]

The reaction you get depends on the EFFECT and how well you present it. It really matters WHAT you do so I suggest you do good effects. If you can perform a good effect and get good reactions with a self working trick then you know that stuff doesn't have to be technical to be good. Nowadays people think that "the more sleights you can pack in one trick, the better the effect" although it's not true at all.

 

[Chris W]

Presentation is what makes things magical. By doing simple tricks, you can focus on the patter and your presentation of it and less on the sleights involved. just my thoughts.

 

[MalibuARMY]

With D&D subway that is a "Look at this" trick and I have never found a presentation that isn't that when it comes to that trick. With simpler effects they are just that simpler to do and therefore there has been more time put into the presentation.

It is all about presentation. That is the most important part of magic. A good friend of mine who is an older magician who goes by Eddie had only been doing magic for a year but because of his performance with his comedy and simple simple tricks he won magician of the year.

It is all about presentation.

 

[Mith]

well dont get me wrong, this thread isnt about me, or about what i think. im not saying i think a bunch of sleight s is better or anything, i simply want to other peoples opinions aswell just saying. and also i want to add that i just see that on a layman point of view, a simple color change looks way more magical, due to its simplicity than a very complex move, where the layman will think that theres something tricky done, even if done smoothly

 

[William Draven]

The reaction you get depends on the EFFECT and how well you present it. It really matters WHAT you do so I suggest you do good effects. If you can perform a good effect and get good reactions with a self working trick then you know that stuff doesn't have to be technical to be good. Nowadays people think that "the more sleights you can pack in one trick, the better the effect" although it's not true at all.

I disagree completely. It's not the effect that makes it magical it's the perforamance.

Take the coin bite for example. How any of us owned one but never used it because we thought less of it compaired to our triumphs or accans?

However David Blaine made it a miracle. The only difference between him and us is performance.

the effect is the vessel, the perforance the product your selling, making the audiences reactions the payoff.

 

[Mith]

I disagree completely. It's not the effect that makes it magical it's the perforamance.

Take the coin bite for example. How any of us owned one but never used it because we thought less of it compaired to our triumphs or accans?

However David Blaine made it a miracle. The only difference between him and us is performance.

the effect is the vessel, the perforance the product your selling, making the audiences reactions the payoff.

So you mean that the power of the effect/ routine you are doing will come from yourself, how you take that vessel and produce it, thus having the ultimate payoff?

 

[William Draven]

yes. The effect itself is nothing without the performance.

 

[Toby]

When I was at the beginning of my magical journey, this was the most magical trailer I have ever seen http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbFNHVt5Yqw. It was also amazing to my friends that have seen it. Now why is that since there is no presentation, and it's all heavy sleight of hand?
Everybody says that performance is the most important part of magic, and that it's number one. I will have to disagree (and get under fire). The most important part (and also the reason why are those DnD tricks magical to layman's eye) is the actual technique, or execution of a trick. No matter how good of a presentation you have, if you start flashing all over the place, you will ruin the magic. David Blaine did perform simple tricks, yes, but he also never flashed. If he did, would people be amazed by his presentation?
So if you can perform Subway or TiVo 2.0 as good as you can perform glide, than presentation comes into play. The reason you get good reactions with almost self working tricks is because you do those moves good and undetected. If you could perform Costya Kimlat's version of Out of This World as good as he can, than you would also get great reactions (with proper presentation).

So I will have to say that once you can perform any sleight perfect and flawlessly, than presentation comes into play to enhance the effect.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Performance aside, the less technical visually, the better.
Think about a color change:
1. You smear your hand over it, and it changes (erdnase)
2. You hold the card at your fingertips and shake it and it changes
3. You hold the card at your fingertips and flick it and it changes (shapeshifter)
4. You hold the card and it just changes in plain view
5. they hold the card and it changes in their hands.

I would submit that the less you do, the more amazing.

 

[RickEverhart]

Presentation, patter, emotional hooks and entertainment value are everything when it comes to the miracles we create. You can destroy an audience technically but if you are not giving them excitement and something to enjoy....then you have wasted your window of opportunity.

 

[ChrisWiens]

Your job is to make things easy as possible for the audience, not to make things as easy as possible for yourself.

The presentation exists for the effect, not the other way around.

Two of Darwin´s Law of one of my favorite magic books, 'Strong Magic'
Although I don´t agree with everything in this book 100%, I agree that presentation is important, but it should not overshadow the effect. The effect is the most important part of any magic performance. Anything else, pattern, presentation, props etc. should only serve to strenghten the effect.

The audience also doesn`t care about method. Just make it easy for them to follow, deceptive and convincing.
I think it´s important to stress the first law, choosing the most efficient way and easy to comprehend for the audience.
Nothing is more harmful than a confused spectator who has lost the thread.

'Strong Magic' 'Chapter One' 'The Goal of Clarity'
What is really essential for strong magic is not simplicity of effect but clarity of effect.

If it´s also the most simple way for you to do, why not ? I would never rate a trick by its difficulty or my own preferences.
An easy trick can be a killer, as can be a 'hard' one.

 

[Mith]

i agree a 100% on that second quote from Darwin that ChrisWiens posted. A trick does not exactly have to be simple to seem magical, but how simple the performer PERFORMS the trick and how smooth. Thus the patter and sleight of hand will make two functions: giving strenght to the effect and giving smoothness and simplicity (if the sleights are performed smooth enough) to the effect. Thus giving the result of a VISSUALLY magical effect that seems like a ''miracle'' through the espectators eyes. So altoghether the power of an effect comes from the perfect balance of technical sleight of hand, patter, performers presentation and of course the effect.

 

[JButterfield]

So what do YOU think, a more simple effect is better that a really difficult sleigt of hand move?
-Christian

I think that the difficulty shouldn't weigh into it at all. Modal jazz is really difficult to play, but pop songs with maybe a fraction of the substance are more popular.

Only magicians care about how difficult something is, or how novel the method is.

First of all, the trick has to be a good one. The effect has to be a strong (which doesn't imply 'difficult'). It has to have the (for lack of a better term) 'magic potential' to play really strongly. Some tricks just aren't good, some are.

Second, the presentation must be good. Many good tricks are destroyed by poor presentation, but bad tricks can only be raised to mediocre at best. You can spend a lot of time polishing a turd, but all you still have a turd.

Third, the performance must be good. The sleights should be done well, the patter delivered well, etc.

Only magicians want to see complicated sleight of hand. Real people shouldn't see it at all, easy or complex.

 

[Toby]

Presentation, patter, emotional hooks and entertainment value are everything when it comes to the miracles we create. You can destroy an audience technically but if you are not giving them excitement and something to enjoy....then you have wasted your window of opportunity.

True, but it's also vice versa. If you have a good presentation and patter (story), but your technical skills are terrible and you are flashing and exposing the method, than you also killed the magic. So I think that presentation should come after you master the sleights that you are going to use in a trick.
The point is, it doesn't matter how difficult a trick is to do (sleight wise), as long as you can do it flawlessly than you can work on presentation and patter. So both kinds of tricks, easy one and difficult one can amaze audience as long as you can do them perfectly and add a good presentation.

 

[MarkH]

I would definitely go with the clarity, which I guess should be seen as part of the presentation. Also, magic should always look simple to the audience in a technical way (the way the magician handles the objects with his hands). It's the difference between magicians and cardists. One will say that what they do is magic, the other will say that it is all sleight of hand. Therefore, the latter one can make everything look as difficult as they want because it shouldn't deliver the magical feelings and miracles that magicians deliver. It should create an awe towards the card and finger stunts instead.

If you are technically advanced and you can make your magic look easy from a spectator's point of view, go for it. It will give you a lot of advantages and in many cases you could create even bigger miracles that way without the need of using gimmicks and without being stuck to simple magic.

Also, please realize patter does't always have to do with talking. Some of the hardest hitting magic speaks for itself and words could only get in the way. Of course, words usually help a lot to interact with your audience and for more solid performances, to clarify that what the audience sees is really happening. Make the right decisions.

So answer the topic: Yes, magical > technical.. unless you're a cardist or anyone who does more flourishy stuff instead.

 

[William Draven]

which is why cardists are not by deffenition magicians. It's a different performance type.

 

[Mith]

Also, please realize patter does't always have to do with talking. Some of the hardest hitting magic speaks for itself and words could only get in the way. Of course, words usually help a lot to interact with your audience and for more solid performances, to clarify that what the audience sees is really happening. Make the right decisions.

A great example of this would be David Copperfield's Grandpa Aces, wich i guess many of you have seen it. If not I encourage you to watch it to see how magic can speak for itself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQQctx7254M

 

[Toby]

A great example of this would be David Copperfield's Grandpa Aces, wich i guess many of you have seen it. If not I encourage you to watch it to see how magic can speak for itself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQQctx7254M

Another example of beautiful magic with music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duQPUMCRALY

 

[Mith]

I agree