theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

May 2009 :: YouTube : Angel or Demon

Youtube is great and perfectly reasonable for things such as flourishes, hell i learned the one handed shuffle of some video on there. I do believe however that the larger tricks have been ruined somewhat by little kids telling everyone how they are done, although realistically, you have to put enough effort in to get the secret anyway, eg name of the trick and the moves involved and it may be a good place for a beginner, who knows? I didn't start there, i started with a book, but it is good for getting a visual look at what it should be like, although in that case granted the explanation is not required.
 
NEW GUY HERE!! RE: youtube????

First i would like to thank Mr Houchin and his colleagues for providing this site.


secondly, hello everybody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


YOUTUBE......

Everyone in the world isn't looking on Youtube for" magic tricks" TRUST ME!

People are looking for the new "yuma yuma" or epic fail.

Even if half of the WORLD looked up a magic trick on you tube with no prior training or experience, they more than likely would only attempt the trick once or twice.

If it isn't a hobby you want to pursue your not gonna waste your time studying.

There are recipes everywhere you look for chicken fettuccine Alfredo, but not everyone cares to cook it or even has the culinary experience to do so, and even if they do cook it.....their not a friggin chef!

FOR EXAMPLE, THE "DOUBLE LIFT" WAS USED IN THE 1900'S AND TO THIS DAY MOST PEOPLE DONT KNOW THIS.

CATCH MY DRIFT?

It will be OK everyone.............the cat isn't completely out of the bag.

Thank you.

Tony out.:)
 
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well, i only have this to say, youtube, will always have its pros and cons, i go on youtube to look for mostly trailers and movies , and also real life perfomances(such as David Blaine's extra footage), and if im not mistaken, Justin Miller recently replied to one youtube user for reaviling Autograph,
People who go on youtube to look for some sort of exposure , esp layp people, as mentioned in earlier post do not know what they are looking for. For instance, i had a spectator once who said he knew how i did a 2 card monte, and explained the whole thing to me, (not the actual method though), and i did it to his friend using a different handling of the 2 card monte, and he was blown away.

to sum up, youttube, i will consider it Demonic with a angelic side.
 
Magician_Jonny said:
Hi daniel, nice thoughts.
But I think exposure to the audience and exposure to the magician is actually the same thing.
Let me explain this in detail, the tricks that are revealed on youtube are mostly just the big illusions, like you can see in national tv, the masked magician with his tv special.
The youtube is a source where laymen can look up those videos, but lets say a magician looks for tricks that the audience don't know or the artist name never heard, for example indecent by wayne houchin.
There are a lot of indecent tutorials I fouind when I watched some perfromanced of this effect.
So my point is this: If a magician would really like to learn a trick then he (she?) buys the dvd of the trick.
If a magician look tutorials up on youtube, I think he wouldn't learn something about the trick, ok, he knows the method, but what's about the psichology behind each trick?
So to say it in a few sentences, if a magician looks up tutorials, then he isn't a real magician, he's maybe someone who isn't interested in magic anymre, but want to know what the method is to don't get fooled.
So that's my point of view, and I definitely will look up this topic often to see what other magicians think about it.
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lol i know who did it
 
I am going to be honest, youtube is how i started in magic, i learnt tricks of a user, wont say names, then i realised that i was not learning enough and that if i can see this for free then everyone could see it for free. So i started getting books and dvds.
 
Hello everyone!

If Youtube is damaging magic, it is not the fault of the public. The public, as I am aware, do not care enough to look on the internet to see how our effects are done. I could hand them the packet of instructions that any trick comes with, and even then I doubt the spectators would take the time to actually understand what was going on, especially for move-heavy effects such as "Invisible Palm."

Instead, it is the magicians that utilize Youtube for exposure. Who else would take the time to be obsessed over an effect and search for the answers? I must say I've occasionally succumbed to the answers of Youtube when I was stumped.

The only damage I see Youtube causing is that magicians end up looking at videos instead of purchasing the effects to see how they're done, causing an economic damage. Also, the lifespan of effects, the time from invention to being overdone by every middle schooler out there, can be reduced.

Other than that, I think we're being paranoid.
 
it's a demon for sure.
In the philippines ,where the price of magic(dvds mostly) for hobbyists is quite overwhelming, some people become dedicated to learning magic and since they can't afford it they go to youtube and search the video they want to learn.
And this disturbs me.

I just hope that theory 11 removes those videos quickly... :D
 
Well, I will be honest here. I think Youtube can be a demon, if in the hands of somebody that doesn't really care to take the time to not only practice their magic before performing, but also takes the time to review their video before uploading on Youtube or any of those other sites.
Personally, I have about 13 videos uploaded on Youtube, but I have reviewed my content before uploading to make sure that the method does not get exposed. As a result I only have a few people that subscribe to my videos, but all of my subscribers are very serious about magic and the ethics behind the trick.
I've met a lot of good magicians via Youtube, and it's also been a joy to post videos on there.
 
I was just thinking the same thing the other day. I personally have used YouTube to learn several astounding effects, some of which are now my favorites. I did not necessarily learn them from the many tutorials on YouTube, sometimes I just learned them by just watching the videos of the actual trick closely, over and over (I have even done this with some T11 promotional videos ;): sorry T11). Basically what I am saying is that I would never want one of my own performances recorded, because any close observer could easily replay the videos several times, or compare it to some internet videos to see how it is done. If I really would choose angel or demon, I would have to say demon, only because I would never want it to happen to me, but if another performer is confident enough that the all-important method will not be discovered, than he can post it at will.
 
d+M said:
Youtube : Angel or Demon

Just a few days ago I read a post from Jason Soll in the General Forum, which has had partial inspiration behind this month's topic and something that we all have an opinion of… YouTube

YouTube offers anybody with a camera, a computer and an idea, a platform for broadcasting to a worldwide audience free of charge. For magicians, YouTube offers a wonderful resource centre for watching those magic effects that we’ve heard about, but never seen, and watching a video of the performance could ultimately help us decide whether or not we want to invest in the product. It’s also a good place to see the magic shows, or clips of them, that we missed on TV or discover new magicians that we would have never heard of otherwise. YouTube allows us to share our performances with each other so that we can learn from the feedback of our community as well as show how we’ve developed as performers.

Although I could keep listing positive things that I can think of about YouTube, I know you’re all just waiting for the negatives, one negative in particular that applies to magicians and the industry we work from, and that negative is exposure.

Exposure is a wide-open subject for us as magicians. The power of a magic trick lies in one place; the method, so when the method is exposed, the magic dies, as does the spectators belief in magic and the magician.

There are two forms of exposure I’d like to hear your thoughts on… Exposure to the audience and exposure to the learning magician, I’d like to hear how YouTube has affected or helped you in your magic and what you think the future holds for magic on YouTube. What ARE the positives? How can we try to reduce the negatives? And finally, in summation of your points - is Youtube a net positive or net negative factor in magic?

d+M
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Daniel, I have a solution. It can only help. It depends on your taste.

Youtube is exposure right??? Who exposes the most magic???

As an artist it took you years to hone your skills right???

Young professional magicians are not a everyday thing, we have some but they aren't common right???

The answer lies in you as a magician. But what i'm about to tell you, you will not like, only because you as a artist and a businessman will disagree:

My METHOD:

I think there should be an age restriction on magic products. I bet you wonder how does one do that??? Easy, this is a time for hardcore rap music to help sell your DVD's, which makes only mature audiences capable of buying. Also use more adult like themes and language for your effects, to ensure that it must be parental advisory warned. Its kinda like a porno thing. Even tho there will be some little sneaky kids buying your effects. The percent of young kids buying a D+M effect will decrease big time. There are a bigger number of exposure comes via kids. There are only a small number of adults actually exposing. Will it stop exposure completely, no. Not at all. Will you see that decrease, of course.

Like i said, you as a artist and businessman will not agree. But if you "truly" do it for the advancement and the love of magic, there's a short term solution. One that will work.


Why it will work:

By the time these aspiring magicians grow up. They will have a better understanding of magic. They will then enter magic for the love of the art. And not for the knowledge of the method. All too often i hear guys such as yourself speak on maturity and taking time to practice. You guys also speak about really working hard on an effect. Well children, rush into things. Adults don't. You may argue and say that Adults expose and Adults rush into magic as well. Numbers don't lie, if you compare the differences of adults and children on youtube. Your answer is staring you in the face.

How to ensure that the methods is kept safe and children still practice magic:

Why not let the chidren that really love magic be part of a organized club??? That will ensure that new and old methods are safe because they will be trained by other older magicians. I really believe if someone such as a Daniel Madison ran a organization for kids and he himself personally taught courses. Kids will listen. No one knows who Daniel Madison is via a DVD's. But if you taught these kids, they would listen. They would understand. Half of the time, kids will just fast forward your 30-40 minute talking to get to how to do the trick. You guys ramble a lot, even on easy stuff, i'll occasionally do so. Haha.

Money is the key:

By kids having to pay dues, that will help ensure your income. Plus it will also fix/balance out the loss of sales in DVD's. Parents will have to come out of pocket. That works for you and for the art. Parents won't spend money for nothing. They will ensure that their children is learning. Kinda like college and private school, no parent is going to pay only to have their child not get any knowledge in return. You guys get your money. You still pass the magic on to the youth. Once again, the answer is staring you in the face.
 
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thats heavy stuff ced.

but i see where it comes from and i see its points.

but kids are so scattered they're everywhere!!!!! trust me i'm a kid i know!! and theres only one adult magician anywhere near me. and i dont like how he operates his business and his magic is something that just seems weak to me from a lay person and a magician perspective. (low quality (pointedly one-way) cheap cards, lame tricks where HE signs the card, not strong magic). but he's the only guy around so it works for him. he's the only guy around, and i'd rather not learn from him.

so how am I, a kid, supposed to learn anywhere but magic DVDs and Books that i order from online stores?
 
worldwideme said:
thats heavy stuff ced.

but i see where it comes from and i see its points.

but kids are so scattered they're everywhere!!!!! trust me i'm a kid i know!! and theres only one adult magician anywhere near me. and i dont like how he operates his business and his magic is something that just seems weak to me from a lay person and a magician perspective. (low quality (pointedly one-way) cheap cards, lame tricks where HE signs the card, not strong magic). but he's the only guy around so it works for him. he's the only guy around, and i'd rather not learn from him.

so how am I, a kid, supposed to learn anywhere but magic DVDs and Books that i order from online stores?
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it was just a suggestion...

well in your case and based on my suggestion to Daniel, thats where all magic organizations come in at, instead of doing all that traveling, why don't the magicians be stationary and teach in a stationed building. Kids can pay their dues to ensure they are getting the best magic possible. There are more kids eager to learn than grownups so when people see kids blowing them away. A bad adult magician here or there won't matter. You guys are the future in this business. Thats what every magician needs to learn. The yonger guys are coming and expanding fast.
 
I actually have performed for audiences who say that they saw some kid performing something similar on youtube. My problem with youtube is that its an overload of information. What I mean by this is that you can find hundreds, probably thousands of tricks, sleights and what not on youtube, and instead of investing youreself into each trick, you just move on to find another and the quality of your magic is quite low because you haven't put in much practice. One other problem I have is that more often than not, the people teaching magic on youtube aren't great magicians themselves (or they would know not to put the secrets out there) and don't often teach the material correctly. I've had several people come up to me and ask me if they're doing some basic sleight right and they're performing it all wrong, which in the long term will hurt their magic. When I ask them where they learned probably over 90% say they learned on youtube. So, I'm not a huge fan of magic on youtube other than to preview tricks, teaching tricks however should not be on youtube.
 
You know i think it is a very difficult subject. There is no doubt that Youtube is a huge problem with not just Magic, but anything that involves skill and closely guarded secrets.

I think we have to be very careful when classing what you were referring to as "kids". Not so much for cause of insult, but rather because its far too pinpointed.

Look at it this way, the younger, and less knowledgable of the world that you live in, the more you want to learn and the more you try to take in. Kids between 12 and 16 say, have an incredibly strong desire for knowledge, because it elevates them, in their minds, to the intellectual level of adults and older teenagers. When you are younger you want to be accepted into a group, its natural. Just like learning to run, toddlers try to run before they have learnt to walk or even stand properly and therefore will, inevitably, fall over.

This is why 'kids' generally find it harder, and take longer, to learn things, because they do not see the importance of learning the basics and foundations that they need to progress onto the 'eye candy' that attracts them in the first place.

Youtube is a catylyst for the globalisation of Magic, among other cultures/arts/entertainment forms. It allows these over-inquisitive 'kids' to have access to a huge source of tutorials, exposures, hints/tips etc. We all know the true damage that is done when just one person releases the secret to a trick, a huge chain unfolds as people see it and have the desire (however pathetic it may be) to attract people to their own personal channel, and so therefore mimic the first exposure they saw, for their own ends.

But Youtube is not all to blame for this. The media stars are the original villians in this controversial argument. Im talking about the likes of David Blaine, Criss Angel and all of the people who have encouraged Magic to be seen as something completely accessible and easy, rather than a traditional art form of skill and knowledge. I don't have anything against Mr Blaine, in fact i rather like his performances, but i think that with all his huge stunts, he has attracted both the wrong and right people to have an interest in Magic.

Hes practically a household name, and this incredible fame is so attractive to kids that they think if they learn a few tricks off youtube they will become just like him. A quote i heard a while ago summarises the result of this: "Once you make somebody your idol, you lose all chance of becoming better than them." And this is the real problem, because these 'newbies' go to youtube and they do find exposure videos without much effort. They substitute quality for quantity and learn dozens of tricks without perfecting several, or mastering the basics.

And the chain continues, more kids see these sub-par performances and think that is the correct way to pull of a trick, and then they produce a video showing them performing it as bad or worse than the original exposure video they saw. And the true meaning, the true image of magic is degraded, and continues to erode as time goes on, because these kids aren't educated properly.

We live in a world of technology, and because there is so much interaction with technology from an early age, kids and teenagers sway towards the easy, lazy way of gaining knowledge; Youtube. Nobody learns from books anymore, and nobody takes the time to listen to the people who really do know what they are talking about.


I'm not saying that kids shouldn't be allowed to learn magic, but i agree with Cedric when he said that they should be taught by professionals, so that they learn Magic by reading, listening and watching.

Steve
 
Well i thought that your ideas were very thought out and was hoping i could add some of my own to them. Glad you thought positively of my comments :)

Going back to the subject though, do you agree with me that its not all the fault of youtube? I mean with kids seeing Mr Blaine and such doing all these tricks and thinking hey i want to learn those, when they don't even realise that he does not create them, just performs them? And that the unseen, more creative magicians who come up with the ideas, are actually getting affected a lot more than the front man.

If they understood how the industry works a bit more and maybe then they would respect the damage exposure videos end up doing.

Steve
 
I really dont think you understand there are people out there who never get to become a magician because they dont have the money for the tricks,so how does that give you the right to say they arent real magicians if they get help from youtube? just because someone like you was spoiled as a child does not mean we all were
 
Sk8r_St3v3 said:
Well i thought that your ideas were very thought out and was hoping i could add some of my own to them. Glad you thought positively of my comments :)

Going back to the subject though, do you agree with me that its not all the fault of youtube? I mean with kids seeing Mr Blaine and such doing all these tricks and thinking hey i want to learn those, when they don't even realise that he does not create them, just performs them? And that the unseen, more creative magicians who come up with the ideas, are actually getting affected a lot more than the front man.

If they understood how the industry works a bit more and maybe then they would respect the damage exposure videos end up doing.

Steve
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Steve you nailed it once more. I totally agree. Blaine will stay protected. He will perform stuff some people will never find out. But the creators are the real targets....
 
I like a lot of what has been said here. My problem with You Tube is that has created a generation of Non-Performing, looks good after 100 takes magicians. You can tell just by there patter, there skill and many other things that they rarely perform for anyone.

Sure getting a 100,000 views of your video is cool but trust me, blowing someone mind in real life, feels a million times better then someone hitting the like button on a video.
 
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