May 2009 :: YouTube : Angel or Demon

James Wise Magic

Elite Member
Dec 28, 2007
1,021
13
I just thought of something.


Exposure isn't something that's bad for us because the spectator might try to find the answer to a trick, BUT instead it's bad for us because I think the majority of people that watch magic tutorials are magicians. If you have noticed most spectators don't even look up the method to a trick even when they say they will, but it's young magicians and magicians that are either rude or just ignorant to what they are really doing. It's those magicians that look up magic tutorials and learn their magic through youtube, not the spectators.

So instead of trying to save magic from our spectators, we need to save magic from ourselves.
 
Sep 17, 2008
195
1
Maryland
I have always been intrigued by youtube and the power that it holds on people. I typically don't use youtube unless I want to show someone a trailer of a trick or just view the trailer on my own. In those cases, I usually only visit youtube maybe once or twice a month at best. I am guilty for looking up videos that expose tricks, but not really because I want to see how an effect is done. I want to see how not to do an effect. I may learn a new trick and after a few weeks check youtube to see if someone exposed the trick. It actually helps me look at the mistakes that they are doing so I can be sure not to do the same thing. I also enjoy reading some of the comments left by people. Like someone said earlier they are usually children that are exposing the tricks. There have been times when I tried contacting a few of the users to take down some of the videos. I even contacted youtube once to try and get a "coin through a soda can" (or sinful) trick taken off. I even went as far to contacting Wayne about it. Wayne never did get back to me, so I assumed it was because he either a). Couldn't do anything about it or b). didn't care to even try. (Im going to go with B here)

Part of the problem with the exposure is young magicians that are either looking up the tricks or even worse, telling the spectator the actual name of the effect. If you actually tell the spectator what the trick is called then they can go on youtube and look it up and find out how you did it. Thus some of the magic dies in that person. The point is to keep them wondering. There is nothing like having a person have a card transform into another card in their hand. They have no explanation for it. They will tell their friends about it and swear that the card was in their hands the whole time. No way! But let them know what the trick is, and they find it youtube. Oh, that’s how he did it. That wasn't as cool as I thought it was.

As far as the angel/demon analogy...demons are in fact...fallen angels.
 
Feb 16, 2009
217
0
South Bend, IN
As Daniel Madison pointed out in the opening post, there is a difference between exposure to the layman and exposure to magicians. On the whole I believe both kinds of exposure affect the beginning and intermediate magician a whole lot more than the expert/seasoned performer.

From the spectator's point of view, they might initially be curious about some effects and go look them up on Youtube. However, I don't think they will continue to do this repeatedly because methods in magic inevitably disappoint and with this disappointment, the interest of most laymen in exposure will die away. Therefore, you may occasionally run into the spectator who will ruin every trick you perform by explaining the secret, but in general these spectators are rare and it becomes a question of audience management when such a person shows up.

I think Jim Steinmeyer said it best when he said that magicians guard an empty safe. Magicians do not possess any groundbreaking wisdom or knowledge because there really isn't anything valuable about the pure mechanics of a trick. Most of the expert magicians know that the secret to a trick is one of many ingredients that make a magical effect amazing and entertaining.

Jamy Ian Swiss has said that magic is the only art form where technique must be hidden. The important thing is to make ones performance entertaining in spite of the fact that one has to hide all the technique to preserve a sense of mystery. Expert performers not only have good technique, but they are also able to give an entertaining performance by bringing something unique to the tricks they perform. A youtube exposure video will never be a substitute for what they can bring to a performance. Consequently, exposure doesn't affect them as much.

I would say that there is one aspect of youtube exposure that has a real negative impact on magic, and that is when rank beginners turn to youtube for tutorials on tricks. Most youtube tutorials often teach faulty techniques and are done only for a camera. If a beginner looks at such a tutorial, practices half-heartedly and then performs for others, his spectators will walk away with a bad impression about magic.

The biggest misconception that youtube exposure perpetuates is that magic is easy if you know the secret. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the magic community can find a way of combating this misconception, the impact of youtube exposure will be greatly reduced.
 
Youtube just dont have the power to do damage to the magic industry.

You can't really learn from youtube is generally a blury camera with horrible explanations, i was having a hard time to learn the sencond deal i just did not found any book or dvd about, so i tried youtube it give me a point to start, but was very hard to learn from a short mute video.

So who realy want to learn will keep buyng the products, and people that are just curious to see the method forget on the next second, there are a lot of tricks that i know how its done but i still love to see.

People who like magic will continue to enjoy the tricks.

Just like in the movie industry survived torrents, there are movies that i just NEED to see in the theater, I just DONT WANT to see in my computer.

If youtube get shut down tomorow, torrents will still exist, the people who realy want to found out how a trick its done will found a way... like shoplift a magic store or something, or point a gun to the magician head.

You tube isint an angel or a demon is a mortal just like us with good and bad qualities.


SORRY FOR THE BAD INGLISH I AM BRAZILIAN... AND KINDA DISLEXIC :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jun 7, 2008
1,648
0
30
DC area
www.youtube.com
well there are people who reveal some tricks that are ok. OMG NO WAY, but it is true. Most people who are starting magic now learn there first couple of tricks on youtube. I know I did. We would not have as many people who are just starting magic. Most people who want to get into magic want to pay $30 to watch a creepy man with eye liner teach them magic. But on the other hand there are people who reveal copyrighted tricks on youtube. This is not good for magic. Take the trick Sinful for instance, I have performed this trick before and people go on youtube and just find out how it is done. Thats bad.

In the end I dont think it is that much of a problem. It rarely happens to me and most magicians. And the way I see it if a trick is hard and they cant do it, it makes you look better and skillful.

Just my 2 cents. =P
 
Mar 1, 2009
19
0
When most people start magic they probably don't know about websites like here, Illusionist, and Penguin magic so you tube is their only source
 
I say neither, an angel is heavenly while a demon is tricky, and evil. Youtube is a human, neither heavenly nor evil. Humans can be raised up to be good or to hate everyone, they can be people like Martin Luther King or people like Adolf Hitler.

Youtube both harms us and helps us. It helps magicains show their magic all over the world, costing not a single penny as you have said Daniel, but with everything good comes the worst, which is exposure that destroys the magic. Youtube is like us. We are like youtube, we have to power to make something beautiful or make something hideous.

Like this... an example, what happened if Adolf Hitler, killing the 6 million Jews... that mind, maybe even smarter than Einstein. But used for the totally wrong cause. What happened... if the Hitler we know... the one that we despise.. actually used his mind for greater things? Hitler is an example of a youtube exposure. However good the stealer who teaches the magic trick (Indecent for example) it makes no difference. Adolf Hitler and a theif, in theory are the same.

But, Martin Luther King Jr., Bob the builder:D, and the people who risk their lives everyday to protect the U.S. help us. Whether it is from learning our ABC's to fighting for desegregation, to saving lives. A youtube video gone good can have superb effects. It can save the day and stop the dreadfulness.

So, I leave you with this thought, youtube is like taro. It can be poisonous, yet when used correctly you can taste the sweet victory. If harnessed correctly it shows its true powers. Youtube is powerful, it may hold magics fate, or be magic's best friend.

This is very long and I sound very smart. :D

EDIT: Because I am smart :D.
 
Jan 5, 2009
80
0
33
Small town Ohio
I've read a lot of the responses and found them interesting. I haven't read them all because my eyes started to hurt, haha. But here is my opinion...

Since the beginning of human life, we have wanted to 'know' all unanswered questions. Whether that be, where we came from?(God or evolution, ect..) What is our purpose? Or whatever else it may be.. we an extremely curious species and that cannot be denied. Even as kids, when we learn the word 'why', it seems that is all we can ask, right? We just want to know.
So when we present magic to spectators, it's almost hard for them to handle that something was presented to them with no explanation. I mean, how many times has someone asked you, "how did you do that"?

Youtube, as a whole, is a great idea. In my opinion. It opened up a lottt of possibilities for people. Whether it's through, music, filmmaking, acting, comedy, magic or whatever.
As it's been said before, magic exposure was a problem before youtube began. Rather than think of Youtube as a demon, I believe we should most definitely look at it as an angel. Is magic exposer from 13 year old kids annoying as hell? Yes, of course. But magic on youtube is also a wonderful way to get magic out there.
In a lot of ways, magic is kind of a lost art. And it is slowly but surely making it's way out again. Which is fantastic! Youtube is helping this. I can personally say, that I first started getting into magic after watching a few youtube videos. Especially flourishing.. I didn't even know what flourishing was until I saw a video of it on Youtube.

If you show an effect to a spectator and they're really going to waste their time to find an explanation on youtube, then forget them. They're not worth your worry at all. Spend your time on the people who are actually open to magic.

Plus, if magic is being exposed on youtube, that should be more incentive to create new effects that have yet to have explanations to even be exposed. Which is always exciting. :]

So those are my thoughts on the topic. Youtube to me, is an angel. We shouldn't waste our time worrying about those who wish to expose. They're not worth the worry. Especially, since there is pretty much no way to stop it. It will always be an issue.
There is good and bad in every thing and everyone. That's just life. Youtube is no different.
 
Mar 1, 2009
19
0
magic lemon bird very good analogy but i want to point some thing out
you say we are like youtube and then you say youtube is like adolf hitler...
i didnt like that but i get what your saying and i like it
 
Sep 9, 2007
512
0
I sort of have another issue with youtube magic...

Intentional vs. unintentional exposure.

I think it's important to recognize that some people have the intent to expose - they post tutorials. From skimming this thread, this seems to be where most of the energy is directed. I agree they can be an issue.

There is, however, a lot of people who unintentionally expose effects. Not to say that they perform poorly (though some do), but some just need to watch their angles and really pay attention to trick subtleties (there's one or two in pressure [just using this because it's a current example - it's a great effect when performed properly] that can make or expose the trick)

Why did I bring this up? Because I think it's important to realize that these two situations need to be dealt with differently.

In the first case, you need to explain how exposure can negatively affect magic as a whole, and to help them determine a better way to channel their energy. Obviously, in some situations, "what's done is done" - The Masked Magician specials exposed some stuff, and there's no hiding what's been recorded for national TV. But in smaller effects that are less widely known, there's still a "special" component to them - that sense of wonderment and awe from not knowing how it's done. We need to explain that that needs to be preserved. A message to the poster would probably be something like this:

"Hey bud, I know you're trying to do what you think is right, and I respect that. I'd just like to give you a quick perspective on the video you posted. As a practicing magician, I put a lot of time into making my presentation of the effect just right. I spend hours upon hours practicing moves, tweaking patter and overall trying to make the effect as enjoyable as possible for the spectator. It just kind of sucks knowing that despite all the work I put in, that it goes unappreciated - a spec can just shout out they know how it's done because they saw a tutorial on youtube. I agree, a lot of it is in the presentation - but with no effect, there's nothing to present. I'd like to ask, on behalf of magicians everywhere that you at least consider taking down that video. I'm not trying to force you, but it would be nice. Also, you should come check out the forums at www.theory11.com (or your other favourite magic site) Thanks.

In the second case, you need to be careful not to attack the ego. The best way to do this is a "feedback sandwich". The key to a sandwich is to compliment, explain the fault, and then compliment overall. I.E. - Commenting on an ACR -
"Hey I was checking out your youtube video and you have a great double lifts and I love your energy, but I noticed a little flash on your pass @ 1:57-1:59. Other than that though, your presentation was awesome! You should take some time and refilm it - it would be awesome!"

While not everyone will respond, many will - the key is to try and to be respectful about it. Obviously there will be those one or two people who are going to do it as a way of acting out, but they're such a small portion of the population and their effect will be minimized.

Another thing too (and I'm not sure if you guys already do it - I don't make exposure vids, lol), would be to have the actual creator of the effect write a nice e-mail to the guy about taking it down. Alot of the time exposure is just a cry for attention, and once they've gotten it, they'll take it down. You don't even need to threaten, just send a message like the one above. I'm sure if Danny Garcia or Wayne Houchin e-mailed some dude something like the messages above, the guy would be like "Wow. Yeah, I guess I was kind of a **** for exposing his effect. And he's such a nice guy about it, so I'll take it down out of respect."
 
I don't know how much YouTube has actually affected the so-called "magic industry", though I can guess that it has rather greatly affected the average kid getting into magic. But how to deal with it?

There's a fantastic video hidden away on this site that's a sort of introduction to beginners, though no doubt it's as helpful to the rest of us. More videos along this line should be made and promoted so that kids fishing around on YouTube can find the real way into magic. Videos about the negative effects of exposure and bad magic would be appropriate, as well.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,840
279
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
You Tube was the first thing that got me into magic.

I was watching "Grandpa aces" by David Copperfield and I liked the shotgun aces and went to find a tutorial... so I found one from Penguin Magic, so I watch It and then learn more tricks from You Tube the mayority were from Penguin Magic... I didn´t knew about the ethical implications of that..I just wanted to learn, maybe some of you might get angry for this, but I don´t care I bet some of you started the same way...

Some time later I discover Ellusionist and then I learned about the ethics and everything, and even when I buy a trick I put the effort that is needed to perfect that effect simply because I paid for it... that way you feel that at least you should make your money worth.

Thats how YouTube affect me, is not bad or good, simply the mayority of people don´t care about how we make the magic, they just care about enjoying it.
even some people are very lazy to waste their time searching Youtube for an effect that sometimes they don´t even know the name.
 
While yes, exposing effects ain't great it's not going to do anything to magic. Listen, barely a small fraction of your audience will go through the effort to search up an effect and learn the method to it. I really used to think that this "Youtube exposure" was going to be the end to magic but in reality it's probably one of the smallest harms to magic.

I think instead of trying to change something that we ultimately cannot change we must instead focus on our own performances. Because what they're exposing on Youtube isn't illegal, so we can't do anything about it. All we can do is try to make our performances better so that the desire to search these exposed methods becomes insignificant.

Mitch
 
May 28, 2009
2
0
Actually youtube make a lot affect to magician and also audience.
I've seen a lot of reveal video post out on youtube.
If we look from the part of magician, we really got pissed off by some guy who unresponsible by revealing the trick, even it was fake reveal or real one.
If we look from the audience part, i really could say, only 1/50 people who would see magic video on your tube. Why? A lot of people love magic, it not so fun to see the magic revealed. it lost the attracting point.
Maybe a lot of people doesnt realize. People watch magic for what they are. they want to see the effect. Even some1 has seen whats the secret are, that some1 will rather choose to see that trick perform to him again than seeing the reveal...
It has its fun to guessing something right? like the puzzle, people like magic that way.
 
Oct 11, 2007
277
2
I think that it depends on what YouTube turns into farther into the future. I want to give that decision another year or so and see how many people's answers change. That's why I am staying neutral. As for the other answers: I think that Youtube may have given audiences just what they needed to make everything that comes from a magician a lie ore trick to them. I also think that Youtube has prodded some beginning magicians in the wrong direction. But, I still can't determine because the pros and cons even out the scales. Oh well.
 
Jun 16, 2008
7
0
Germany
I think youtube is a great place to go for beginners.People who are really interested in the art of magic.I mean when i started doing magic the only place where i could find magc was youtube.There i found artists like daniel madison or daniel garcia and they really inspired me and awakend the passion iin me.

But along with good things there are alyway bad things.Exposue hurts the art...it kills it.
Only thing we magicians can do is come up with new things,new methods and new tricks those people can´t figure out...and if they do we need to come up with something even more astonishing.I think exposure will always comne hand in hand with magic.

I don´t know a reason why people expose our magic.Maybe because some magicians claime to have magical powers? Uri Geller is an example. And those people try to proof the oposite.

Now the bottom line is that i think youtube is a demonical angel...there will always be people exposing on youtube...but there will also be many young kids ( like i was ) who will be fascinated by the magic videos on youtube and take those as an incentive.


Patrick Art
 
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