My mentor was a guy who started magic two years after me, at the age of 16, and is now 18. He is amazing and has a respect for the art of magic that I think no one else here has. He has about fifty years of magic history stored in his head, and he strives for a perfection I haven't seen in others. My mentor gave up doing magic for med school, and I think we have lost a great mind in magic. I saw him as a reincarnation to the old art. You wouldn't believe how many times he'd talk to me saying "I created a new sleight based on (blah blah blah's means to achieve blah blah a la blah blah." The next day after searching endless manusripts and doing his "homework," he'd come to me saying "this person created this sleight in this year to achieve this result in this effect" or something along those lines. It just shows that he had a grasp of magic that I never could imagine having. He has lots of stuff he's kept secret, and I can tell you it's nothing modern like DM or Brian Tudor. In fact, it's completely old school. The important thing here is that I have ten times the respect for him than I do for anyone else.
Misdirection
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My mentor was a guy who started magic two years after me, at the age of 16, and is now 18. He is amazing and has a respect for the art of magic that I think no one else here has. He has about fifty years of magic history stored in his head, and he strives for a perfection I haven't seen in others. My mentor gave up doing magic for med school, and I think we have lost a great mind in magic. I saw him as a reincarnation to the old art. You wouldn't believe how many times he'd talk to me saying "I created a new sleight based on (blah blah blah's means to achieve blah blah a la blah blah." The next day after searching endless manusripts and doing his "homework," he'd come to me saying "this person created this sleight in this year to achieve this result in this effect" or something along those lines. It just shows that he had a grasp of magic that I never could imagine having. He has lots of stuff he's kept secret, and I can tell you it's nothing modern like DM or Brian Tudor. In fact, it's completely old school. The important thing here is that I have ten times the respect for him than I do for anyone else.
Brian Tudor and Daniel Madison among the best? I never said that. For the record, I dislike Tudor's style and really think he needs to get over himself. He uses speed as an excuse to be rough and choppy.
I am well aware that there are hundreds of professional magicians who have contributed to the art. Returning to the original topic, these magicians all knew the value of MISDIRECTION. Both Erdnase and Bobo devote time to misdirection in their classic books (both of which I have read), and I would go as far as to say that misdirection is just as important as sleights are in the art of deception.
Mentalism, usually, uses very few or even no sleights; however, it is a very well-developed area of magic that has evolved almost entirely on the basis of psychologically misdirecting audiences.
And please, don't talk to me like you're older or more experienced, like you have lived through Vernon's era and are disappointed at the current generation. We are, after all, the same age.
Sorry for the condescending talk. I shouldn't have assumed. I find nowadays, I have to rant to make my point known. I've just been around some people that lived through that age, and that's all they knew and have passed down to me. I think i'd have more respect for magic's modern tastes if I was properly introduced to it. Please don't take my criticisms harshely, as they were intended for the general public and not directly at anyone in particular =) And you're 16 also? Thats awesome. I think I am proud of ourselves for where we stand in knowledge of magic.
heyy welcome back namie.
anyway, i kinda have to agree with namie, SOMETIMES misdirection is used to cover lack of skill. in that case its bad. but honestly, how the hell are you going to steal a watch without misdirection.
gotta know when to use it like chris says.
anyway, i kinda have to agree with namie, SOMETIMES misdirection is used to cover lack of skill. in that case its bad. but honestly, how the hell are you going to steal a watch without misdirection.
gotta know when to use it like chris says.
Personally I think you should practice it without misdirection, perfect it without misdirection, perform it with misdirection. You should get it to a level where you don't need it, then use it as well. If it's already undetectable, now it never happened at all.
Yeah that does make sense... I should have spoken of those certain "exceptions," seeing as I perform a coin routine with a watch-steal kicker. haha... once again James Brown. Amazing guy eh? Anyways, that stuff is Intended Misdirection. You can't do the effect without the steal, which was created with misdirection. I think we are all confusing stuff that requires misdirection with sleights that don't require misdireection, but rather perfection.
I can't believe what I'm reading. Misdirection is by no means a tool used by those who lack skill, it's incredibly important. Quite simply you couldn't be more wrong, though i think I know why you guys have these opinions.
That is true Namie, but what you have just given an example of is not misdirection, no no no. It is what you yourself almost called it in your post; distraction. Proper misdirection is when you make someone look somewhere by getting them to choose to look there, because they made the choice they don't feel as though they've been tricked into looking anywhere, but you always had complete control because you knew they would make that choice.
Please read my last post if that's unclear because I went into it in a bit more detail there. But I am still confused, a couple of names have been thrown out in this thread by people who don't think misdirection is necessary when the names they throw out use, have written about and promote misdirection. James Brown and Dai Vernon for example. How do you think Brown gets the deck under the card box without anyone seeing? How did Vernon make all his final loads in his cups and balls routine? Misdirection is the answer! Not super fast hands. I agree, you do still need to master your sleights, but there are some moves in magic that can't be made invisible, coin in eye, card to mouth etc. etc.
Misdirection is a fundamental technique in magic and the sooner you realise that it doesn't mean you are a bad magician and start using it the better.
Tom
That is true Namie, but what you have just given an example of is not misdirection, no no no. It is what you yourself almost called it in your post; distraction. Proper misdirection is when you make someone look somewhere by getting them to choose to look there, because they made the choice they don't feel as though they've been tricked into looking anywhere, but you always had complete control because you knew they would make that choice.
Please read my last post if that's unclear because I went into it in a bit more detail there. But I am still confused, a couple of names have been thrown out in this thread by people who don't think misdirection is necessary when the names they throw out use, have written about and promote misdirection. James Brown and Dai Vernon for example. How do you think Brown gets the deck under the card box without anyone seeing? How did Vernon make all his final loads in his cups and balls routine? Misdirection is the answer! Not super fast hands. I agree, you do still need to master your sleights, but there are some moves in magic that can't be made invisible, coin in eye, card to mouth etc. etc.
Misdirection is a fundamental technique in magic and the sooner you realise that it doesn't mean you are a bad magician and start using it the better.
Tom
Some people here definitely have misdirection confused with something else. Being able to misdirect well is as much a skill as being able to perform a sleight well, possibly even more so. As Bijlogg said, true misdirection leaves an audience thinking that they were watching the whole time.
Namie, you say you do card to mouth, but without misdirection? So you deliberately let everyone see how the card gets to your mouth!? Card to mouth is a perfect example of what misdirection really is. It relies on it. At no point do you have to say "Look, it's a dinosaur!" Misdirection is less saying "look away so I can do my sleights", but more "watch really closely so I can't do any sleights". The audience is always watching what they think is important, but they aren't.
Having a list of possible methods of misdirecting an audience and then picking and choosing one when it's needed seems a bad way to go about adding misdirection your your performance. How you misdirect should be tailored to the effect you are performing. Eye contact is sometimes appropriate, but I've seen people take this far too literally and give their spectator a stare of death. The best kind of misdirection is when you do something that you might have done anyway, and sometimes it takes a bit of experimenting to find what works best.
Huruey
Namie, you say you do card to mouth, but without misdirection? So you deliberately let everyone see how the card gets to your mouth!? Card to mouth is a perfect example of what misdirection really is. It relies on it. At no point do you have to say "Look, it's a dinosaur!" Misdirection is less saying "look away so I can do my sleights", but more "watch really closely so I can't do any sleights". The audience is always watching what they think is important, but they aren't.
Having a list of possible methods of misdirecting an audience and then picking and choosing one when it's needed seems a bad way to go about adding misdirection your your performance. How you misdirect should be tailored to the effect you are performing. Eye contact is sometimes appropriate, but I've seen people take this far too literally and give their spectator a stare of death. The best kind of misdirection is when you do something that you might have done anyway, and sometimes it takes a bit of experimenting to find what works best.
Huruey
Yeah, card to mouth is all about misdirection. Planting that double, fanning (or what have you) then asking them to push in, while the move is done is just misdirection at its finest. also it helps if there's patter involved.
E.g. "The key thing is to watch what i do closely. (Try and get them all to gather up closer) I'll do it fast, but slow so you can follow. (Lennart green?) "
E.g. "The key thing is to watch what i do closely. (Try and get them all to gather up closer) I'll do it fast, but slow so you can follow. (Lennart green?) "
I'm going back to saying what I did two or three posts up. There is a fine line between intended and necessary misdirection, and then there is the type that is simply used for cover up in lack of ability to perform a sleight well. The latter is, in my honest opinion, an excuse that a performer may or may not know he/she is using.
The funny thing is I don't think most people know how to misdirect correctly (ie "Look, blah blah over there" because I've seen it said before...sadly). Most people take the "large action covers the smaller action" saying and turn it into some type of religious motto.
By the way, I perform four routines from James Brown's Lecture 2008, and I DO know that misdirection is used heavily. If you do notice though, half of the misdirection is in the creation of the effect. He points out numerous times during the explanation that "people will not look because they don't expect it," or something along those lines. Back to my point above... some effects must have misdirection because misdirection lies in the sequence of events to achieve particular purposes. Something like the "erdnase" color change ( as people call it nowadays) does not need any misdirection at all, yet I see youtube videos of it all the time. It's really weird as an example, but I just threw that out to give you guys a picture of what I sometimes see.
The funny thing is I don't think most people know how to misdirect correctly (ie "Look, blah blah over there" because I've seen it said before...sadly). Most people take the "large action covers the smaller action" saying and turn it into some type of religious motto.
By the way, I perform four routines from James Brown's Lecture 2008, and I DO know that misdirection is used heavily. If you do notice though, half of the misdirection is in the creation of the effect. He points out numerous times during the explanation that "people will not look because they don't expect it," or something along those lines. Back to my point above... some effects must have misdirection because misdirection lies in the sequence of events to achieve particular purposes. Something like the "erdnase" color change ( as people call it nowadays) does not need any misdirection at all, yet I see youtube videos of it all the time. It's really weird as an example, but I just threw that out to give you guys a picture of what I sometimes see.
"Omg is that Jesus? *wallet steal* oh, it's just michael jackson."
I have looked around before when performing and lets say I see something odd happen... I'll glance at it and just say "wow." and they'll turn to see what it is
I tend to use misdirection in my everyday activities anymore. I stuck a co-worker with a post it note yet misdirected him before I did it ....
I have looked around before when performing and lets say I see something odd happen... I'll glance at it and just say "wow." and they'll turn to see what it is
I tend to use misdirection in my everyday activities anymore. I stuck a co-worker with a post it note yet misdirected him before I did it ....
Yeah.
Misdirection is built into magic so deeply that doing a move secretly is misdirection.
Even if you don't 'distract' them and perform a pass with them burning your hands, perfectly, then you've misdirected them into thinking their card is in the middle.
Misdirection is another word for deception in magic. I deceive my audience into thinking somethings happening in my left hand, bringing my vision to it, poof! right hand now has selected card half way out of the deck (card across, DnD).
I know the difference between saying 'What the...(stares beyond spectator)' and 'If you watch your card (indifferent...but hey, they don't know that) closely...I can just...' Biddle trick does this well. 'Your card was the...5 of hearts (holds different card' you never lie, but they think that you're holding the 5...easy like Sunday morning..
Anyway-Hope some of this helps clear the air. Mastering sleights is a great route to take, but self-working tricks or non-perfected(misdirected) sleights still get the same reactions...and making people happy through entertainment is what it's all about.
I generally don't use complicated sleights, I'm partial to making simple tricks (mostly) and building them into big reactions.
-Rik
Misdirection is built into magic so deeply that doing a move secretly is misdirection.
Even if you don't 'distract' them and perform a pass with them burning your hands, perfectly, then you've misdirected them into thinking their card is in the middle.
Misdirection is another word for deception in magic. I deceive my audience into thinking somethings happening in my left hand, bringing my vision to it, poof! right hand now has selected card half way out of the deck (card across, DnD).
I know the difference between saying 'What the...(stares beyond spectator)' and 'If you watch your card (indifferent...but hey, they don't know that) closely...I can just...' Biddle trick does this well. 'Your card was the...5 of hearts (holds different card' you never lie, but they think that you're holding the 5...easy like Sunday morning..
Anyway-Hope some of this helps clear the air. Mastering sleights is a great route to take, but self-working tricks or non-perfected(misdirected) sleights still get the same reactions...and making people happy through entertainment is what it's all about.
I generally don't use complicated sleights, I'm partial to making simple tricks (mostly) and building them into big reactions.
-Rik
Well, I respect your take on this subject. However, I hoenstly believe misdirection is entirely different from what you've described as simple patter. Misdirection isn't quite saying something to me, but is more of actions or gestures, and even the use of eye contact. I could be wrong there though... not sure what the word misdirection has evolved into today haha
And not to disrespect you. But my first example was actually a vision oriented misdirection. They watch you put 'their card' into the middle of the packet in your left hand while you actually set it up to be sticking out of the packet in your right.
And I agree that sleight of hand should be practiced enough that misdirection isn't needed. And on the point that misdirection is anything that pulls heat from what's going on to help surprise your spectator. (hand gesture, vision distractions(eye contact), patter-driven...etc)
It will still come in to play, most magicians do subconscious gestures or things that have become natural to the routine, arouse NO suspicion and in fact misdirect from something they're doing.
I am also going to say that most of the people that say 'omg a meteor' were being sarcastic. (not to say all of them were...but some of them definitely were).
-Rik
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If the spectator realizes that they were misdirected,then it wasnt misdirection.It was just bad.When a spectator is properly misdirected they say things like"how could that have possibly have happened?i was watching the entire time!"but of course they werent.but if its good misdirection(not distraction) they dont remember it.
I'm a little confused here...I'm not really sure what to think of what I'm reading. If I'm incorrect in my observations, please do correct me.
So the general consensus seems to be that misdirection is absolutely required sometimes (ie. watch steal), but not always. Okay, I can live with that.
It also appears that sleights are preferred over misdirection. Some have gone so far to say that one who uses misdirection over perfected sleights are just hiding a lack of skill. This is where I'm confused...it sounds more elitest than anything. Even having the choice between doing a perfectly executed (and invisible) sleight with my hands being burned (say, a pass), and doing that same move (whether invisible isn't important, as it doesn't matter in the end) with the addition of some misdirection (say, looking up at them instead of burning your own hands, like I've seen people do--which is silly, because it just invites them to burn your hands right along with you), I would always choose option two. Why? It just doesn't make sense to take away the security that misdirection gives you. When you can make something easier on yourself, why wouldn't you?
Some seem to think "well, misdirection is just an excuse for laziness"....is it? Or is it another means to an ends? If you and your audience are both having fun, your effects are going great (with your sleights not being noticed), does it really matter that you're relying more on misdirection than on perfected sleights? Personally, I don't think so. What I think needs way more focus in this day and age is patter (or people skills in general), because with all the videos I've seen of performers from forums, that seems to be the single most noticeable skill that's lacking. It seems so awkward for the person to be able to get through a conversation as they're doing the trick--if they even venture from their script. They're like anti-social robots--it honestly seems like some have never talked to another human being (note the word: some). For those people, yes, perfected sleights are more than necessary. For those of us who can talk to people, ie. have a bit of charisma, then misdirection is a tool we have access to...and why wouldn't we take advantage of that?
I suppose it's just a personal preference as to whether or not you take full advantage of all the options you have available to you. Some will, some won't. People like to throw out sayings around here, so I'll throw one out there, too:
To each their own.
So the general consensus seems to be that misdirection is absolutely required sometimes (ie. watch steal), but not always. Okay, I can live with that.
It also appears that sleights are preferred over misdirection. Some have gone so far to say that one who uses misdirection over perfected sleights are just hiding a lack of skill. This is where I'm confused...it sounds more elitest than anything. Even having the choice between doing a perfectly executed (and invisible) sleight with my hands being burned (say, a pass), and doing that same move (whether invisible isn't important, as it doesn't matter in the end) with the addition of some misdirection (say, looking up at them instead of burning your own hands, like I've seen people do--which is silly, because it just invites them to burn your hands right along with you), I would always choose option two. Why? It just doesn't make sense to take away the security that misdirection gives you. When you can make something easier on yourself, why wouldn't you?
Some seem to think "well, misdirection is just an excuse for laziness"....is it? Or is it another means to an ends? If you and your audience are both having fun, your effects are going great (with your sleights not being noticed), does it really matter that you're relying more on misdirection than on perfected sleights? Personally, I don't think so. What I think needs way more focus in this day and age is patter (or people skills in general), because with all the videos I've seen of performers from forums, that seems to be the single most noticeable skill that's lacking. It seems so awkward for the person to be able to get through a conversation as they're doing the trick--if they even venture from their script. They're like anti-social robots--it honestly seems like some have never talked to another human being (note the word: some). For those people, yes, perfected sleights are more than necessary. For those of us who can talk to people, ie. have a bit of charisma, then misdirection is a tool we have access to...and why wouldn't we take advantage of that?
I suppose it's just a personal preference as to whether or not you take full advantage of all the options you have available to you. Some will, some won't. People like to throw out sayings around here, so I'll throw one out there, too:
To each their own.
I agree. Personal preference for the win at the end of the day. My "elitest" mentality was not meant to be like that. I'm just saying that our attitudes on misdirection should aim towards not having to "rely" on it. Use of misdirection is quite fine, but I believe only when required.