My Thoughts on CelebraCadabra

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bonnermagic, May 11, 2008.

  1. But since you didn't actually watch the shows, how do you know what the content is?

    Most people don't know YouTube exposure videos even exist. Don't run if you're not being chased.

    You're making comments you're not qualified to. And I'm more than a little annoyed with you that you have never been to the States, but you will gladly tell me what's going on over here.

    You claim the doublelift is exposed to the point where I'm constantly getting called on it during my performances. Do you have any proof of that, yes or no?

    I am sick to death of having to do everyone else's homework for them.
     
  2. well i probably never been in states, but we had those shows in my country too and that was really annoying. It wasnt as much as in america, but even this one show was pure exposure.


    well and the calm down was meant for ur comment... i just read a mod had to delete some words because they were disrespectful
     
  3. What shows? Phenomenon? If you think that was an exposure show, that just means you didn't watch it.

    Which one?

    It's no secret that the mods don't like me. I don't suffer fools, and my acting on that puts me at odds with them quite often.
     
  4. Steerpike, I have to agree with you somewhat. However, I feel you are currently being disrespectful. I was just having a discussion with you before and then you have to get all offensive. You kindly asked for a number... I gave you a number... and then you were disrespectful. It's hard to believe you are a mod on the E forums because you sure as hell act disrespectful towards most people over at Theory 11.

    I will say though that Ben does not have a right to speak of the shows he hasn't seen before. That was ignorant. However, you have to be respectful. Now don't reply to me saying that I can't tell you how to talk on a forum. Your right. However, if you are disrespectful then I just plainly won't talk to you. Quite a few times on AIM I've had a few people say that you are being a jerk and that I shouldn't even talk to you. Honestly... we don't need that kind of talk in here. From now on... if you make a post that is disrespectful towards me or another member.. I just won't respond. I don't care what points you make (or lack of points). I just simply won't respond unless you type them in a respectful manner.

    As for your comment about the amount of kids in my school... well...

    1. I don't know every single person in my school so how should I know how many kids are looking at Ellusionist.
    2. I know for a fact there are more kids in my school that watch VH1 so I'm sure they have seen the E ads and have gone on Ellusionist before...

    As for you saying that most people don't know Youtube exposure exists... you are correct. Do you know why though? It's because they don't know it's exposure.

    There are kids all the time I perform for that say they want to get into magic. I usually brush it off because none of them realize it's actually work. However, one time a kid told me that he was completely serious. I decided that if he actually works a bit hard at it then I'll help him out and really get him into it. Of course he didn't as a predicted... but he did look up a few effects from a small site... you may know it as Youtube.

    He didn't know it was exposure because he didn't know what exposure even was. He just thinks he looked up a trick. I get that a lot in school. Kids will say "Oh man, when I get home I'm gonna go on Google and Youtube... gonna look up some magic tricks." It pains me. It really does. However, they don't know any better because they aren't really even INTO our actual art so they can't know better. Another kind response I get after doing magic sometimes is "I'm going to look this one up on Youtube tonight." It saddens me.

    -Doug
     
  5. That's why I didn't ask for exact numbers. I'm just looking for an example for the sake of argument.

    Going on Ellusionist does not constitute exposure, though. Nor does knowing it exists.

    In fact, most laypeople actually know that magic shops exist. They may or may not know of the local one, but they know that they exist. How is this any different? To this day, no one has been able to give a satisfactory answer to that question. No one can tell me how knowing of the existence of an online shop is any different from knowing of the existence of brick-and-mortar shop.

    Now you're just blowing smoke up my ***. It doesn't matter if they don't call it what we do, the number of people I've encountered that know they can look up exposure on YouTube compared to the people that don't is remarkably small.

    One case is not an epidemic.

    How many actually do?

    Besides that, I don't count high school as the real world. For one thing, it's one step below a prison, filled with a bunch of children desperately trying to cut one another's throats in adolescent confusion. Nobody has their act together in high school, so most of them choose to rip off somebody else (or at least threaten to).

    Second, performing in school is nothing like performing professionally.
     
  6. Magic itself is a very contradictory art that for one every success of an art is based on the popularization of the art yet for a magic effect to be succesful it relies on the concept of surprise and contradicts the benefits of it beeing a common knowledge.

    This very conflict within the magic itself is what i believe to be the cause of the anti-popularisation movement within the magic community.
    Some of the common believes within this movement is that:
    1, when the knowledge about magic is widelyspread nobody would be entertained by magic anymore, thus magic itself will die with time.
    2, poor performance or false assumptions will be totally destructive and result in lack of respect for anyone that practised the art.

    Result is an increased amount of critics against some of the best popularizers of our art(criss angel etc).

    The fact is, often the contradictory is true, due to the popularisation of today's magic shows it is almost impossible to find ppl who has never seen a magic trick/effect sometime in their life. this also resulted in a largely increased amount of Youngsters that practise magic during out time. that is an indication of the growth of our art. while a numerous ppl has grown resentment against so called 10 yr old within the community, from the psychology perspective one hates someone else for something that they hate themselves, is just saying that We use to be that way too !, i remember when i first saw a magic trick on TV that was so awsome and at the end of the show whoever it was "exposed"a simple trick for the kids to practise at home, it only toke me 5 second to try it out to my parents.

    All in all, Our community is definately growing, and part of it definately thanks to some of the best popularisers out there. there are more goods than bad that came with it, stop your own insecurities first instead of judging others.
     
  7. I watch the show. Persoanlly, I HATE reality shows, but this one I watch because of my interest. Strangely I've never seen Phenom... (Can't stand Uri, but that's another thread...)

    Anyways, what I've seen of the show isn't all that disrespectful since (without spoiling it) one of the contestants was removed from the show. It seems to me that the rest of the people involved are trying their hardest to learn magic. Sure, they're mixing in their own personalities, but that's something we all do.

    As to exposure, I think it's no more than what's been going on all along. Look at Penn & Teller. They do a lot of exposure, but audeinces are still amazed by what they do.

    How many of us who are magicians look at a trick here on T-11 and say "Wow....How did he do that???"

    Even with our own knowledge and skill WE are still amazed. That's why they sell the tricks.

    No matter the exposure, the "WOW" factor is still there. Sure you are going to get a few people who call you on it and try to be a hotshot, but they are few, honestly.

    But it seems to me that exposure isn't going to go away, and you know what? Neither are the audiences.

    I may be a little optimistic about exposure, but it seems to me that if you don't let it affect your performance, you will rise above it.

    As to this show, no, it's not the greatest. It's stuck in late night after prime time so they don't expect a lot of ratings from it. And it seems to me that the people who are left are sincerely trying to learn magic.

    That just might help someone get into this craft.
     
  8. recently someone posted a video of D. Copperfield doing a show in the 1970's. This show was amazing back then, but in todays standards it would have been absolutely laughable. Not just the funny clothes, sets, hair, and bad acting... the magic is no longer considered amazing in todays standards (even tho back then it was). I think that magic has in fact lost its innocents to a certain degree. We no longer can have a magic TV show without half naked women and the hope that someone might get hurt. However, back to the tricks performed on the 1970's special. I watched it all the way through and was shocked that the methods weren't completely obvious to the audience. Then I realized... these tricks were eventually killed due to some form of exposure. AND NOT ON YOUTUBE! Regardless of any form of media based exposure (tv or internet), the worst form of exposure is doing the trick more than once. These tricks were done over and over by different magicians. So much so that sawing a woman in half is just laughable to even the dullest layman. How many people do you know, or maybe yourself, that have a hand full of tricks and performs them over and over again until the next big release from E or T11? And then perform them over and over until someone mistakenly see the trick enough times and catches the method? Thats just as bad as anybody exposing on youtube. HOWEVER, I still say all exposure is not 100% evil. I'm personally glad that we arn't doing the same tricks that we did in the 1970s. Look how creative and stellar our shows have become. To wrap this up.. just remember: Art will not die. It may change, morph and look like something completely different, but isn't that magic anyways?

    ###lazydog


    ps. stop performing in school and equating it to the real world, Steerpike is right on that.
     
  9. The thing is though, school to me is the real world. It's all I know, really. So I don't think that argument is very strong at all.
     
  10. Just because performing in school is all you know doesn't mean it's anything like performing professionally.
     
  11. #71 lazydog, May 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2008

    I understand that, and I respect that greatly. Heck, we've all been there and as much as I hate to admit it, when i was in school compared to now, it is a bit different. We didn't have youtube or anything like it to spoil our fun... but we did have "The Masked Magician". However, it doesn't mean that performing in school is in fact what you have to look forward to for the rest of your life. I guess what I'm saying is, "yes it sucks right now because of something your peers did, but it won't always be like that". Its easy to get caught up thinking that the way something is now, is the way it will always be. Your current environment (school) may or may not be cohesive to magic as a hobby. However, to allow that experience to deter you and force feelings of failure upon yourself is not healthy. Nor is the idea that since youtube exposure has been a problem for you, it will be a problem once your surroundings change. That is simply not the truth, but I can see how it may seem that way. You do have one ability that many don't realize. CREATIVITY! To my school ages friends: you do not realize the potential for creativity you really have. Youth have been the creative force of this new digital age, and continue to think outside of the box and create. Simply because they have yet to define the box itself. For the most part, your worries consist or social, educational, and parental areas. You have actual time to create. So do that, create and think... grow the art form. Everyone of your "heros" here started as some punk kid in high school being creative and making up effects. If they are really your "heros"... then try to be like them! Not in the sense of how you dress, do your hair, speak, or act... but in the sense that you are creative and want to do magic as an art. Stop whining and start fixing. I have never read ONE post about "oh poor me, someone exposed my trick" from a T11 artist, and they are the ones with the most to lose from it. So lets step up and step out and make something vanish, change, or transport!

    ###lazydog
     
  12. Maybe if your around the age of 12 - 15 it can be a problem because kids around that age can be very immature and they dont want you to look better then them so they find out how its done becaus they want you to look bad.

    So if thats your audience you might have a small problem.

    I can never imagine a smart and successful person sit all night at his computer searchin for the secret behind your trick.

    I have performed for some of the most successful and rich people in my country and sometimes when i meet up with them they can ask me about a trick i did for them several months ago and they have been thinking about how it was done, most people dont really know what to search for, nor do they care.

    Even if some sleights are well known we have to try to be ahead of our audience. If your doing an ACR and someone say "Hey you did a doubble lift" Just say No i will show you again, and the do the pass for an example becaus then, you did not do a doubble lift in their mind and its even more amazing.

    Some might say, "hey, the pass is exposed as well" But a perfect pass looks like real magic, a youtube tutorial pass does look like something else.

    Also we dont have to buy from the big magic sites, there are plenty of other good magic out there.
     
  13. To everyone that is saying this Celebracadabra show is ruining magic, please enlighten me - how did you start up in magic?

    Personally, I saw a trick on youtube (that Roy Rapheli one) searched for the explanation, learnt it, showed it to my friends, messed it up, made a complete wanker out of myself and then bought Royal Road to Card Magic and decided to learn properly. And I have now done that, and I am certainly not as someone so eloquently put it "an exposure monkey."

    Someone said magic was a "sacred" art. Not only did this make me laugh out loud, but the hypocrisy of it is amazing. Did a copy of Bobo's Modern Coin Magic fall out of the empty sky, hit you in the face and divulge all of it's wisdom, to set you on the sacred path? I suspect not - I suspect you saw something on the television, or on youtube and thought "hey, that's pretty cool" and started from there.

    You do not have to be in some kind of secret society to learn magic, nor should you be. Let me just copy a quote from Bobo's Modern Coin Magic:

    "a small, thin paper catalogue that dazzled the imagination and hinted of secret powers to any boy that might possess who was able to meet the heavy financial obligations involved."

    Sound familiar to anyone? That was in 1912, and 96 years on it's just the same. The "sacred" art of magic looks pretty good to me.

    Anyway, feel free to disregard all of that, but I do just want to say one more thing - does it honestly, truly matter? At worst some people are going to go to ellusionist, buy the DVD's (which I suspect is what 90% of you did when you first started up in magic) and either continue on learning, or get bored and give it up.

    Honestly guys, stop fretting over a TV show. I don't know what provkes people to make these whiny prophetic threads about magic being doomed for all eternity (also, I don't know what makes you so qualified to predict this apocalypse, how old are you again?)- perhaps jealousy that people are being given the opportunity to do something that you thought only you could or should be able to do. Hate to burst your bubbles, chaps, but you're just one kid of thousands who does magic, and most of them are better than you. Get used to it.

    Also I am deeply in love with Steerpike, unfortunately he is a man.
     
  14. Loz! That was great! I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you.

    ###lazydog
     
  15. I get this a lot. ;)

    Still, good to see someohe else talking sense around here. Seeing all the people here playing Nostradamus drives me up the wall.
     
  16. Well, we can always try to make up for what the internet junkies do. I know that every 2 days I annoy a different person on youtube who reveals magic tricks, and i offend and do whatever is necessary to stop him/her from posting and delete the revelation videos. The means by which I do this are probably sometimes bad, but I believe the ends by which come from this process are far better than having people post revealed magic tricks.
     

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