New "Mandolin" deck for magicians and gaffs.

Sep 20, 2009
445
83
I noticed the differences quickly and prefer the 808's. The standard gaffs (blanks, doubles...etc) don't alter the back design, which is what the issue was all about, so they will continue to produce standard gaffs for magic dealers to sell.

I don't use enough gaffs to worry about needing to switch, and have been using cards less and less throughout my sets.

On a slight side note:any magician serious about using a marked deck (raises hand) shouldn't mind taking 20 minutes (I know you have 20 minutes...) to mark each new deck they use (takes less time with practice) or even taking an hour one night to mark 3-4 decks for use.


i do the same mate. all my decks are marked, a lot using the blood marking systems for my tally's and I've made up my own for the Centurions and Arcane's. as well as my other decks

but i think it would look much cleaner if it was already printed into it, then there would be no off colour or anything dig?
 
maybe usppc needs to make a whole new brand of deck, that is cheap, and just as good quality, made mostly for magicians. it doesnt even have to look the same.
cause these cards look like a cheap Chinese rip off brand. why not make a very nice background, that has some similar qualities, but a different design totally. it wont happen, but i guess pheonix is what im talkin bout. but easier to get and just as cheap but with simalar qualities. not make a rip off that is clearly not the rider back people know and love
 
May 31, 2008
1,914
0
Not enough of a market, I think, to really make such a big project out of it.

Although magicians are a very small demographic, but behind casinos, businesses with souvenir decks etc., we're probably the biggest consumer of playing cards. Think about it, the average person buys one deck, and uses that deck for the next 20 years. A magician buys one deck, uses it for a week, throws it away, and then buys another, or even buys cards in bulk.

Just look at this thread:

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=27772

26 decks, 36 decks, 350 decks, 1,000 decks, 4,000 decks for one person! Magicians are huge consumers of playing cards. It makes sense for the USPCC to target them.
 

j.bayme

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Jul 23, 2007
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New York City
Although magicians are a very small demographic, but behind casinos, businesses with souvenir decks etc., we're probably the biggest consumer of playing cards. Think about it, the average person buys one deck, and uses that deck for the next 20 years. A magician buys one deck, uses it for a week, throws it away, and then buys another, or even buys cards in bulk.

Just look at this thread:

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=27772

26 decks, 36 decks, 350 decks, 1,000 decks, 4,000 decks for one person! Magicians are huge consumers of playing cards. It makes sense for the USPCC to target them.

Magicians are a core brand lover of playing cards by definition, but still a very, very, very, very small part of USPCC's business. Casinos use decks for hours on the casino floor and then require new decks to enter play - this equates to tens of thousands of decks used weekly. In addition, USPCC's distribution in retail outlets like Walmart, Target, Walgreens, CVS, etc - including that of the Guardians - forms the bulk of their business.

Magicians are a small niche of their business that they group into specialty markets. Magicians know a lot about playing cards, however, and it is for that reason that individuals like Richard Turner, Bill Kalush, Jason England, Chris Kenner, and myself work closely with USPCC to test out new decks, provide constructive criticism on printing techniques, and try to help them improve. That said, we are under no illusion that magicians are a market of any real consequence to USPCC. Magicians are connoisseurs of decks - for sure - and for that reason they have been more than gracious in working with us over the past few months to maintain quality while they have moved to a new facility and new primary press.
 

j.bayme

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Jul 23, 2007
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New York City
Quick Question Mr.Bayme

how come you have never made a pre-marked deck?

Our rationale for this thus far is that a marked deck of a "new" design, I believe, raises a few eyebrows. If you open up your pack of Guardians and the spectator says "hey is that a trick deck?" - you simply give it to them to examine, and they stop worrying. But if that deck of Guardians is a trick deck, or is marked, then you've got another hurdle to overcome. Do you still hand them the deck to examine? If so, you'd better hope your markings stand up to close examination. It's not an impossible hurdle to overcome, but it's something to consider.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
Cuz if you gaff Bikes yourself and then use it in the public, you'd be infringing on the UPSCC's copyrights on the Bicycle Rider Back design. I think.

Technically, no. Unless you were gaffing the back design... But as far as them making gaff decks, wouldn't those decks they're producing be covered by the copyright?
 

j.bayme

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Jul 23, 2007
2,848
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New York City
imo, you're doing something wrong if you take out your deck and the first thing someone says is, "Is that a trick deck?"

Not necessarily, I would say. Anyone that performs regularly of course comes across spectators that think they know everything. Most people know that magicians sometimes use trick decks and things of that nature, and some people - not all - will vocalize those assumptions in performance. I don't, however, believe it to be a sign of a weak performer whenever spectators speak up. Often, those are the audiences we can learn the most from, as they are the ones that say what everyone else is thinking.

Tough audiences are a fact of life. Just last night after Steve Cohen's performance at the Waldorf Astoria here in New York City - a five star hotel - one of the audience members came up to Steve and rather forcefully attempted to grab the deck of cards that was in a box behind him. I assume he wanted to look macho in front of his girlfriend. This was one audience member out of 100 in the room that felt some strange, burning desire to do that. It was rude, and certainly nothing in Steve's performance hinted at use of a trick deck.

In fact, Steve only does two card tricks in his 90 minute act. After the first, he gives the deck to a spectator to take home and examine. And at three parts during the second card trick (the finale), the cards are handled by random spectators, not Steve - he barely touches them. Thus, I have concluded that this was not the fault of Steve - he is a stellar performer. It's simply the fault of the spectator for - to put it lightly - being a royal jerk.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
Not necessarily, I would say. Anyone that performs regularly of course comes across spectators that think they know everything. Most people know that magicians sometimes use trick decks and things of that nature, and some people - not all - will vocalize those assumptions in performance. I don't, however, believe it to be a sign of a weak performer when spectators speak up. Often, those are the audiences we can learn the most from, as they are the ones that say what everyone else is thinking.

Tough audiences are a fact of life. Just last night after Steve Cohen's performance at the Waldorf Astoria here in New York City - a five star hotel - one of the audience members came up to Steve and rather forcefully attempted to grab the deck of cards that was in a box behind him. I assume he wanted to look macho in front of his girlfriend. This was one audience member out of 100 in the room that felt some strange, burning desire to do that. It was rude, and certainly nothing in Steve's performance hinted at use of a trick deck.

In fact, Steve only does two card tricks in his 90 minute act. After the first, he gives the deck to a spectator to take home and examine. And at three parts during the second card trick (the finale), the cards are handled by random spectators, not Steve - he barely touches them. Thus, I have concluded that this was not the fault of Steve - he is a stellar performer. It's simply the fault of the spectator for - to put it lightly - being a royal jerk.

Perhaps, JB, but I would submit that such people are an overwhelming minority. Respectfully, we are speaking of different situations. You're speaking of individual case studies and royal jerks (which I agree with, fair enough). On a side note, I find it ironic that I have found far more magicians who behave like this than laypeople. I'm speaking more however of the general group of spectators who won't ever reach out and grab your deck. Perhaps I should not have been so general in my statement. I'll be more specific. If people are asking you if that is a trick deck every time you pull out your Guardians, then you are doing something wrong.

Yes, there are people who are simply jerks. But most people are not. It's when most people start asking that you're doing something wrong, when it happens more than the occasional magic club story of the horrible spectator.

I do however take issue when people say things along the lines of, "The deck is a custom deck, and therefore suspicious." Custom decks are not inherently suspicious because they are different. I have my own opinion as to why this happens, and it has to do with congruence.

Here in Australia, there is no standard deck. Rider Backs are rare and sell for $10, sometimes more. Every single deck of cards is different, and under the argument above, every deck of cards is suspicious.

And yet, I have never once been asked about a deck of cards. Why not? I'm using custom decks (my performance deck is D&D's S&M). Of course, just because someone hasn't said anything doesn't mean they're not thinking it. I may well have left years of spectators wondering if I used trick decks. But I do not believe this is so. Why? You have mentioned that there are simply jerk spectators. I agree. I have run into these before. You have also mentioned that it is these people who often speak what is on everyone's minds. This is probably also true. And yet, I still have no received any comment, even from these people, about trick decks. I can never conclusively prove so - but to my mind, the silence does say something about the issue.

Again - yes, there are spectators who plain and simply are jerks. Everyone comes across douchebags and horror stories. But most people aren't. Ninety nine out of one hundred. And the problem is when magicians start experiencing people in the latter group asking them if they are using a trick deck, and therefore conclude that custom decks are suspicious. This, I believe, is incorrect, and is an attempt on the performer's part to shift blame from themselves, and onto their props (ignoring the solution: it is, after all, them who choose their props).
 
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May 10, 2010
138
0
I'd like to ask a quick question though. Let's say I pull out a custom deck (not gaffed) at the beginning of a performance, probably a deck not many people have come across. And then I casually remark, "this is just your average / normal deck of playing cards" to my spectators. Do you think this would solve the problem? Or would it worsen the situation?
 
I generally dont say anything like that. Being over open in my mind hinders the effect. Its sorta like you have something to prove and therefore something to hide. There is nothing more powerful than them asking you to examine the cards and you saying sure here you go etc.

J.
 
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