New name for all this!

[trashmanf]

How about, "Omnipotent Card Master and Commander"

also, i agree that if a bunch of DVDs come out with the name "cardistry" or whatever then THAT name will start being taken seriously and used by more people. But it's still not gonig to work to call yourself a "Cardiste" on your business card

 

[Monkeyofmanipulation]

One day everyone will realize that the only logical name for it is carDING.
You know you love it.

ok maybe not. WOw, well hopefully this will be cleared up soon and then we can all say "are you a carDING dude? "
other man replies " why yes!"
" wow lets become best friends!"
"ok!" they embrace.

 

[trashmanf]

um, sounds like that could probably happen...maybe in san francisco...

I really don't care if DVDs come out called Carding, Cardistry, Cardspackling or whatever, because any DVDs coming out would be great, there's not enough material out there as it is

 

[Ben Long]

The Third and Final hidden clue/poorly concieved poem:

But how ever could the magician,
A boy of mere thirty, ever
Become the greatest magician
In his era?
Every night, he practiced,
Sadly, he still was worthless after three years.

A real man has conviction.
Real conviction, the magician had naught. He was
Easily the least convicted magician ever.

Cod is not a good fish to consume from a can.
How do I know? Because I
Eat it on a regular basis.
Why do I do this if I hate it so?
You would too if you had a third nipple.


Again, this one is an acrostic.

And if you're still too lazy to crack open a Websters (although Oxford English is better), then just read the first letter of each damn line for the "hidden" clues.

 

[Cliff|Bumgardner]

hahahaha that was very funny.. haha

 

[Glenn West]

Is it laughable that magicians still use playing cards when they're said to have magical powers? "I'm such a skilled magician I still use playing cards to demonstrate my awesome magical talent!" Point is their both stupid. But the only reason XCM is a great term within the community is the division. To create it's own artform completely devoid of magic entirely. So one day someone can completely bypass the lesson on the double lift and mechanics grip and go straight for the fanning and one-handed cuts. May sound laughable now. But just because something sounds stupid now doesn't mean it won't have meaning for the future.

The "White House" was just a slang for the presidential housing in Washington D.C. hundreds of years ago used by everyday people. Look at the term today, it's completely 100% associated with the same building and reporters, politicians, and everyone else uses "white house."

Even more recent example, The Nintendo Wii. Sure everyone was firing their penis and weewee jokes when the annoucement was made. But you sure don't hear those now do we. It was a successful platform that brought a new view on gaming and continues as such even if it did have a questionable and laughable name people will still pay for it and enjoy it regardless of the person who gave the name.

My problem with XCM, is using the acronym, and the word "extreme."

I am fine with just card manipulation, or hell even card juggling, and if you think it is above juggling, tell that to a juggler.

Calling it "extreme" sounds laughable simply because it is not extreme. Especially in a world with EXTREME sports etc, handling cards is nothing compared to that and to use the same term to describe the two is to try and put them side by side.

As for the Wii, I still laugh at it, but I never laughed because of its name.

I really don't see it that way, sure it will pop up in books sometimes, but still kind of iffy depending on the people you deal with.

I pulled the definition for flourish off of dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flourish

But I applied a definition that would make most sense in everyday language, but you are correct that is one of the definitions of flourish.

Being ridiculed for terminology? Well in that case whatever you call it, whatever your providing should overshadow that anyway, and throw couple overhead springs to shut them up or something. I highly doubt people will try to ridicule you if you have the skills to back it up at least not in public. Besides stand behind your words, seriously. Kind of spineless to let some ridicule stop you from using a sensible name for what you do.

Flourish


It is a rather common definition, and is also nothing new, using it to mean a fancy gesture, etc.

This is quite a common way for people (laymen) to interpret the word too. Also, as for having the skills to back it up, you better be juggling razor sharp cards lit on fire to back up extreme.

um, sounds like that could probably happen...maybe in san francisco...

I really don't care if DVDs come out called Carding, Cardistry, Cardspackling or whatever, because any DVDs coming out would be great, there's not enough material out there as it is

LOL, Cardspackling it is. Expect to see the new dvd in the next few months.

Check out www.whatiscardspackling.com

 

[UnknownEnemyZero]

Flourish


It is a rather common definition, and is also nothing new, using it to mean a fancy gesture, etc.

This is quite a common way for people (laymen) to interpret the word too. Also, as for having the skills to back it up, you better be juggling razor sharp cards lit on fire to back up extreme.

There is a difference between watching things done on a laptop or on TV than stuff being done right in front of you. People appreciate things more when done in person and will easily be okay with words like "extreme" and "cards" going together. This works well when your using actual impactful moves.

 

[Vinnie C.]

There is a difference between watching things done on a laptop or on TV than stuff being done right in front of you. People appreciate things more when done in person and will easily be okay with words like "extreme" and "cards" going together. This works well when your using actual impactful moves.

I perform for people on a CONSTANT basis, at the Magic Castle no less, doing magic AND manipulation. I see exactly how people react to which moves. So you can trust me on this subject.

As far as impact moves go, yes, they get great reactions, but can you fill an entire show with JUST impact moves? I used to call myself an extreme card manipulator, but I was always uncomfortable with the term.

I'll be doing some tests soon to see which terms laymen like the most.

-Vince

 

[trashmanf]

vinnie, i didn't know you were a regular at the magic castle that is awesome! is it around the LA area, I'd love to stop by and check it out next time I'm in town (my girffriends from there and i travel to CA a lot for business too)

 

[Vinnie C.]

vinnie, i didn't know you were a regular at the magic castle that is awesome! is it around the LA area, I'd love to stop by and check it out next time I'm in town (my girffriends from there and i travel to CA a lot for business too)

Yeah man, I'm there all of the time. Not performing official shows, mind you, rather more intimate performances for people strolling around, between shows, etc.

Yes, it's in the L.A. area.

-Vince

 

[UnknownEnemyZero]

I perform for people on a CONSTANT basis, at the Magic Castle no less, doing magic AND manipulation. I see exactly how people react to which moves. So you can trust me on this subject.

As far as impact moves go, yes, they get great reactions, but can you fill an entire show with JUST impact moves? I used to call myself an extreme card manipulator, but I was always uncomfortable with the term.

I'll be doing some tests soon to see which terms laymen like the most.

-Vince

Well in that sort of venue your sort of competing for attention. Usually the ideal situation for this stuff is to make you the number one master on this card manipulation and what your performing is something that no one else in the world can do. I can see where your coming from.

Not sure about the entire shows cause personally I've never done them like that. But ask Jerry more about that cause he'd be the number one source on card manipulation shows. But also in any show like that you'll have your patter, laugh getters, and whatnot; no one was saying you should be able to sustain all of the audiences attention for an entire show. It's like going to the next magic effect without shutting up and giving time to the audience to react and clam down for the next effect. Card manipulation does have story telling though. Great example Jerry gives: The Houdini double armspread story, how people said it was impossible and everything, and how even Houdini's peers couldn't do it, and you can end that story with a great armspread routine ending in, of course, the double armspreads. Fanning decks also provide a great source of manipulation to show off cause their not your usual bicycles and ho's but sort of exotic. The American Flag deck has story too cause it eventually makes the American flag in a giant fan, I believe Jerry referred to it as Fan-O-Rama. Course you have to apply some kind of presentation to it, you can't just bust out the decks out of nowhere.

I speaking and referencing Jerry's remarks about routines he does for real performances so I'm not sure of all details but you get the gist of it.

 

[Ben Long]

So, here it is. Flxisqueshcmdiseck is finally revealed!

All of the answers to all of your questions will be answered.

So, here it is.

It doesn't matter. I'll forgo the Shakespeare rose metaphor, but who gives a damn what you call it? Do we all love to do that thing that we do? Certainly.

Using cards, manipulating them, making embellished movements and displays. A picture (or routine) is worth a thousand words, no? If somebody has no clue what we're talking about when we say "flourish" or "XCM," we'll just show them Sybil or W.E.R.M. or CTG. They'll go something along the lines of "Oh! das some mad crazy skeells 'choo got theh, bruthah!"

And they won't give a damn if it's a flourish or an extreme manipulation of cards.

It eez what it eez.

...

But most importantly, it's Flxisqueshcmdiseck.

 

[trashmanf]

i dont get what youre saying longman. what the hell is a Sasiuaib?

 

[Ben Long]

i dont get what youre saying longman. what the hell is a Sasiuaib?

No, see this one was an acrostic for the last letter of each line. The message I was trying to get across was "ddsoyatthszk."

Duh.

 

[Glenn West]

There is a difference between watching things done on a laptop or on TV than stuff being done right in front of you. People appreciate things more when done in person and will easily be okay with words like "extreme" and "cards" going together. This works well when your using actual impactful moves.

And what exactly does that have to do with ANYTHING I said? again, "extreme" is putting your fancy cuts next to base jumping and juggling flaming knives on a unicycle on a tightrope, above a shark tank, which is also filled with rocks, sharp ones, with lots of pointy parts..

 

[UnknownEnemyZero]

And what exactly does that have to do with ANYTHING I said? again, "extreme" is putting your fancy cuts next to base jumping and juggling flaming knives on a unicycle on a tightrope, above a shark tank, which is also filled with rocks, sharp ones, with lots of pointy parts..

The point is, amazement is perceived differently when in real-life, right in front of them, rather through some computer or something. I highly doubt everyday people see people juggling chainsaws on fire and unicycle on tightropes above sharks IN PERSON. Who cares if the association is completely off the wall if you analyze it. The person could care less about the word association that is general paired with *insert examples stated by Glenn West* being paired with a deck of playing cards.

If that's not definition enough, watch a video of some guy getting shot in the head. I'm pretty sure if you were demented enough to go look for it you can see it on the Internet or rent the Faces of Death. Watch some guy get shot in the head in real life right in front of you. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE, sorry for the dramatic imagery. But this is the point I'm trying to make.

 

[Sean [that's heavy...]]

...Thirdly, your laymen are correct, you deserve to be made fun of for using the term "XCM" in front of them

Hear hear!

 

[trashmanf]

I actually agree with UEZ on this one - the "extreme" is the pinnacle, highest point of something...

to most laymen, the skilled card manipulator WILL be performing the most extreme skill, the pinnacle of card spackling, they have EVER seen, in person. probably on TV as well!

it's just like people that say "oh I can't believe you're wearing that goofy looking shirt" or whatever - but if you go out there confidently, you can totally pull it off. like , you wear the clothes, don't let the clothes wear you.

if you're already embarrassed for saying something like "XCM" then you're obviously not very confident in your ability (maybe you sux? so your ability won't really appear eXtreme to them?)

if you roll up on someone and just blow them away with amazing skill, you could even call it "Extreme Death Cardistry Flourishing" and they would say, badass!

 

[Vinnie C.]

Well in that sort of venue your sort of competing for attention. Usually the ideal situation for this stuff is to make you the number one master on this card manipulation and what your performing is something that no one else in the world can do. I can see where your coming from.

I'm the only manipulator there, and one of only two people who do walkaround.

Of course you have other things in shows, patter, presentation, audience involvement, jokes, etc etc. But my point was that a show could hardly be filled with ONLY the BIG impact moves. Well, it could, but it would be kind of a short show.

Trashman, we know what extreme means, but that's hardly the point here. It's the fact that "XTREME" this and "XTREME" that has been sooo overused in society, it sounds cheesey. Why not use something that a laymen can really connect with?

-Vince

 

[trashmanf]

well I agree that it sounds cheezy if you "XTREME this and XTREME that" but, what if in the patter, with the magic tricks, they say "ohhhh" when you do a fan or spread and ask more about it. you say "that's called card manipulation" and they say "i'd like to see some more"...

then you say, well there's a type called extreme card manipulation... and start going 'Bananas' giant fan, double armspread, upside-down spring etc. i think they might appreciate the "extreme" modifier in that context?

i realize that this issue won't get resolved over an internet debate because it's sort of "to each his own", if you don't like the term, it's definitely going to affect your ability to sell it.

case in point - richard has used "cardistry" in speeches before and he said it was well recieved in that context, however, many forum members say they get laughed at when they use the word.