You need to give credit to Ray Bradbury for using his idea. Will adress this problem later.
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- Thread starter William Draven
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You need to give credit to Ray Bradbury for using his idea. Will adress this problem later.
I agree with wholeheartedly. And, of course, taking away the item until the end of the day.
Sadly, we can't just draw inferences like that. All we're given for information is that the tool can be used as a knife, a fork, and a spoon, and that it falls within the definition of a "weapon" for that school.
Personally, it sounds to me like it was a Swiss Army-like knife, which tend to be metal (I've yet to run into a plastic item like that (except for the toothpick portion of one Swiss Army knife), although I am by no means a Swiss Army knife expert). However, I can't say for sure. All we know is what is written--the device can be used as a knife. Whether or not it was as dangerous as some assume, who knows? But it is a knife, apparently, as it seems to fit within whatever guidelines the school has set out.
As for where we draw the line--I'm fine with any metal knife or gun (of any kind) being banned. Having a weapon around, for whatever reason (even for self-defense), just increases the chances of that weapon being used in a crime of passion.
More importantly than the weapon rules, however--there should be programs calling on parents to actually...you know...parent their kids, as that seems to happen less and less now-a-days. That would solve a lot more problems than any school rule could.
As a teacher and soon to be admin I see how the zero tolerance is a double edged sword. It is there to make sure all parents feel safe to send their children to school and not have to worry that something could "accidentally" happen.
In this case, had I been the principal I would have used my own judgement and taken it from the boy. I then would have called the parents and told them the situation and IF our district had a zero tolerance policy....given him just 1 day out of school suspension.
The problem lies within the zero tolerance that you can have someone like this young child bring something to school and he gets the same punishment as a 5th grader who brought some other type of weapon, bullets, etc. to school. It isn't fair, but then again, who wants to be the one who decides each and every case as parents look for loopholes and try to bring up past cases. It gets to be a very sticky mess. Ugh. 45 days to a reform school was definitely over board. 1 or 2 days out would have been sufficient.
BTW Cubscouts rocked when I was a kid. Ended up becoming an Eagle Scout as well.
In this case, had I been the principal I would have used my own judgement and taken it from the boy. I then would have called the parents and told them the situation and IF our district had a zero tolerance policy....given him just 1 day out of school suspension.
The problem lies within the zero tolerance that you can have someone like this young child bring something to school and he gets the same punishment as a 5th grader who brought some other type of weapon, bullets, etc. to school. It isn't fair, but then again, who wants to be the one who decides each and every case as parents look for loopholes and try to bring up past cases. It gets to be a very sticky mess. Ugh. 45 days to a reform school was definitely over board. 1 or 2 days out would have been sufficient.
BTW Cubscouts rocked when I was a kid. Ended up becoming an Eagle Scout as well.
I have a cousin who is six. If he got a tool that was a fork knife and spoon all in one I could see his parents telling him not to bring it to school. Then i can see him sneeking it to school to just to show the class and probly the teacher.
I would be crushed if he was suspended for that. I still feel bad for the kid who did get suspended and I don't even know him. Like he has violent intentions, psh it boy scouts!!! whats soo bad? The whole seniorio just makes no scence
I would be crushed if he was suspended for that. I still feel bad for the kid who did get suspended and I don't even know him. Like he has violent intentions, psh it boy scouts!!! whats soo bad? The whole seniorio just makes no scence
D
Deleted member 2755
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YOU COULD KILL SOMEONE WITH SUCH A DEVICE! I removed it from the quote simply because it looks too terrifying to look at! Any kid who uses that death trap deserves any punishment they get!
-Doug
That's what I think they're talking about.
Gus
Hey, I think thats the WMD George Bush was looking for...
I have never seen such a device. That thing is...seriously, that's a real product? Hahahaha...oh my.
Actually that looks like a pretty cool gadget. Except that you would have to hold onto the messy end when you wanted to cut something or switch back and forth from the spoon to the fork.
From looking at the picture of the so called weapon, I was picturing something metal or a little more dangerous. That being said, if one of my kids brought this to school, I would simply take it from them until the end of the day, and then send it back home with a note to the parents not to bring it back. Oh well.
From looking at the picture of the so called weapon, I was picturing something metal or a little more dangerous. That being said, if one of my kids brought this to school, I would simply take it from them until the end of the day, and then send it back home with a note to the parents not to bring it back. Oh well.
Let me add my two cents in. I am a teacher. I teach English/Drama at a high school. My wife is a Elementary school teacher. You can look at this article two ways: 1. The school board being to tough on the kid and rules should be applied on a case by case basis. 2. The school has to uphold the rules no matter what the circumstances are.
For me personally, I know that students are crazy sometimes and they do stupid things. Where I work, there are many children that bring drugs, guns, knives, or other weapons to school. They rarely even get caught with them. We know they are there, but we can't prove it without a search...and we can't search without probable cause. It's insane for the rules to be so severe in some cases and not so much in others. There are rival gangs at my school - and they could start fighting at any time.
My wife teaches in an entirely different area. The students wouldn’t dare do anything illegal or harmful. They have the fear of God in them when it comes to disobeying. But, there is still no excuse for bringing in harmful objects - regardless of the intent. Imagine everyone's shock when the good little six year old excited about using his spork or whatever it was, accidently cuts someone with it. What would happen if he accidently hit a child in the eye with it? Sure it was just an accident. But to the parents of the child who just lost their eye, this could have been prevented. What about the kid letting someone else borrow it for a little while and THAT kid does something bad with it. Yes you can flip side this, and say that anything can be used as a weapon, blah, blah...
Let me make my point...the students should know what to bring to school. They should know the school rules from the beginning of the year to the end. Even if the kid was six years old he should know that bringing things from home are a "no no" unless authorized by the school. Was the punishment a little too harsh? Sure. I don't think the kid should have gotten so many days. I would think a 5 day suspension would have sufficed. He would have learned a lesson - and also more important, he would learn that he can't get away with such things without punishment.
I can just see the future of this kid who did NOT get punished for bringing something bad into school - what else would the kid bring in as the years of his school career went on? Maybe he gets excited about a Swiss army knife from scouts. Maybe he gets excited about the new gun and license he got for hunting. This may be a little over protective, but - you have to add the "what if" factor.
For me personally, I know that students are crazy sometimes and they do stupid things. Where I work, there are many children that bring drugs, guns, knives, or other weapons to school. They rarely even get caught with them. We know they are there, but we can't prove it without a search...and we can't search without probable cause. It's insane for the rules to be so severe in some cases and not so much in others. There are rival gangs at my school - and they could start fighting at any time.
My wife teaches in an entirely different area. The students wouldn’t dare do anything illegal or harmful. They have the fear of God in them when it comes to disobeying. But, there is still no excuse for bringing in harmful objects - regardless of the intent. Imagine everyone's shock when the good little six year old excited about using his spork or whatever it was, accidently cuts someone with it. What would happen if he accidently hit a child in the eye with it? Sure it was just an accident. But to the parents of the child who just lost their eye, this could have been prevented. What about the kid letting someone else borrow it for a little while and THAT kid does something bad with it. Yes you can flip side this, and say that anything can be used as a weapon, blah, blah...
Let me make my point...the students should know what to bring to school. They should know the school rules from the beginning of the year to the end. Even if the kid was six years old he should know that bringing things from home are a "no no" unless authorized by the school. Was the punishment a little too harsh? Sure. I don't think the kid should have gotten so many days. I would think a 5 day suspension would have sufficed. He would have learned a lesson - and also more important, he would learn that he can't get away with such things without punishment.
I can just see the future of this kid who did NOT get punished for bringing something bad into school - what else would the kid bring in as the years of his school career went on? Maybe he gets excited about a Swiss army knife from scouts. Maybe he gets excited about the new gun and license he got for hunting. This may be a little over protective, but - you have to add the "what if" factor.
Holy,
All very valid points. I am an elementary teacher as well. It is way too difficult to decide case by case senarios and this leaves loopholes for the next instance.
All very valid points. I am an elementary teacher as well. It is way too difficult to decide case by case senarios and this leaves loopholes for the next instance.
Read an update today on MSN. I guess the teachers are getting together to vote to pass some kind of amendment or something that would give the staff and faculty the ability to use common sense and discretion with regards to incidences on a case by case situation.
If this goes through it will retro-activate to the start of the school year, granting a lighter sentence to the offending kid.
If this goes through it will retro-activate to the start of the school year, granting a lighter sentence to the offending kid.
I would like to add my two cents...for whatever it is worth. Reading the posts from Holyshnikes and reverhart I agree with them.
My thoughts.
I think the punishment is a bit harsh. However, the rules and discipline must be followed. Granted, these are fairly new and young rules, and will take some time to iron out kinks. The bottom line is such...if you make an exception for this particular child/case, then you have set a precedent in the disciplinary structure which can open gaping holes in the rules structure. That will result, in time, to a Swiss cheese model which will eventually prove itself useless. Unfortunately it usually takes a case of one extreme to start the "ironing out" process. However, if the school board and law makers can stick to a good logical process, eventually they will come to a better set of rules.
I do not believe much in the case by case style of discipline. That really poses an unfair style of discipline. If you break the rules and get caught, then you face the penalty. Such like the natural laws of gravity. Dose not matter what type of person you are, if you step off a ledge, you are going to hit the ground.
Somebody had also mentioned fault of the parents. I agree with you 110%. Especially when you are talking about a six year old kid. The parents are wholly responsible for reading and understanding the school rules, and the parents are responsible for the actions of their children.
My thoughts.
I think the punishment is a bit harsh. However, the rules and discipline must be followed. Granted, these are fairly new and young rules, and will take some time to iron out kinks. The bottom line is such...if you make an exception for this particular child/case, then you have set a precedent in the disciplinary structure which can open gaping holes in the rules structure. That will result, in time, to a Swiss cheese model which will eventually prove itself useless. Unfortunately it usually takes a case of one extreme to start the "ironing out" process. However, if the school board and law makers can stick to a good logical process, eventually they will come to a better set of rules.
I do not believe much in the case by case style of discipline. That really poses an unfair style of discipline. If you break the rules and get caught, then you face the penalty. Such like the natural laws of gravity. Dose not matter what type of person you are, if you step off a ledge, you are going to hit the ground.
Somebody had also mentioned fault of the parents. I agree with you 110%. Especially when you are talking about a six year old kid. The parents are wholly responsible for reading and understanding the school rules, and the parents are responsible for the actions of their children.
Just another example showing how controlled children are these days. Cant play tag anymore, its exclusionary.
Cant play with small hockey sticks, it can be used to hit people.
But standing around is ok, its perfectly fine for your kid to stand around during recess. Until his leg falls asleep and the ****ing parents sue the school and there will be no more standing around.
Cant play with small hockey sticks, it can be used to hit people.
But standing around is ok, its perfectly fine for your kid to stand around during recess. Until his leg falls asleep and the ****ing parents sue the school and there will be no more standing around.
D
Deleted member 2755
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Again... Ban pens and pencils. Those points are dangerous bro. I know if I was a parent, I wouldn't want my kids around others with dangerous pointy objects.
-Doug
That plastic spork thing Gus posted is not what the kid had. The kid had an actual case knift called the "hobo". The knife folds out, the spoon folds out, the fork folds out. It's metal.
Let's ban scissors! Because what are they? Just 2 knives fastened together by a rivot! You could gouge someones eye's out with that thing! Let's ban tacks! You could sit on one! Let's ban rubber bands, someone might get shot with a wedgie!! Let's ban compasses in geometry, they're too sharp! Let's ban life because someone might get hurt!
I'm sick of people factoring the "what ifs?" into everything. The entire populous get's punished for the sins of a few. Let's face it, accidents do happen sometimes, but that shouldn't prevent us from living life. The spork thing was not a weapon... it's a tool used for eating. Yes all sorts of tools can be used as weapons, baseball bats, hammers, screwdrivers, flashlights, shovels, pens, chainsaws, automobiles, ect. But does that mean we should ban everything?
What is this world coming to? What happened to common sense?
Let's ban scissors! Because what are they? Just 2 knives fastened together by a rivot! You could gouge someones eye's out with that thing! Let's ban tacks! You could sit on one! Let's ban rubber bands, someone might get shot with a wedgie!! Let's ban compasses in geometry, they're too sharp! Let's ban life because someone might get hurt!
I'm sick of people factoring the "what ifs?" into everything. The entire populous get's punished for the sins of a few. Let's face it, accidents do happen sometimes, but that shouldn't prevent us from living life. The spork thing was not a weapon... it's a tool used for eating. Yes all sorts of tools can be used as weapons, baseball bats, hammers, screwdrivers, flashlights, shovels, pens, chainsaws, automobiles, ect. But does that mean we should ban everything?
What is this world coming to? What happened to common sense?