Other Force

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Kuzelnik, Apr 6, 2020.

  1. I have created a (card) trick. And it combines a lot of methods that i know. But i have one problem. I don't know what force to use. I didn't want to use the same force all the time (hindu shuffle force). And i also think that the classic force is a bit unreliable. Is there any force i could use other than these two? (more advanced forces)
  2. Cross Cut Force
    Dribble Force
    Riffle Force
    Double Turnover Force
    Ten to Twenty Force
    Slip Force
    203rd Force (Christ Perfect Force)
    One Way Force Deck
    Short Card Force
    Cull Force
  3. Is that the simplest method you've created for your effect? If so, carry on.

    As for other forces, the Riffle force and the Cross Cut force are my favourites. There's also a very clever 'force' by Henry Christ. It's pretty mind boggling if used correctly in context. A simple Top Change or DL can often be used as a 'force'.

    The choice of force depends on whether you can afford to have the order of the other cards changed or not, or the top stock retained, or the cards are face up or down.
  4. No the order doesn't matter because I'm going to be using a duplicate and somehow put it into the spectators pocket and you can imagine the rest
  5. Then you can honestly use any force you like. Almost all the commonly used and 'fair' forces have been mentioned on this thread.
  6. Things to consider when choosing your force:

    Time Spent
    - Does the selection process need to get done quickly? If so, maybe use a force where they only LOOK at a card instead of selecting one and having it returned.
    - If you want to emphasize the fair selection of the card because your effect uses a duplicate, take your time when performing the force, and speak to the conditions that the card is being selected in. ("You shuffled and cut this deck, and took any one out at random..." etc.)


    - If the effect uses a duplicate, you definitely want the force to look as fair and/or random as possible. Every performer has pet forces that look great in their hands, but in general, the classic force, Hofzinser spread force, or one-way force deck can all be made to look especially fair.

    Needing a free selection
    - Often we don't even need to have the spectator select their own card; just show them an apparently random card in some way, and ask them to remember it. An example of this is Charlier cutting to a crimp with one hand, and then thumbing over the top card.
    - Jay Sankey sometimes selects cards for people. "Here, take this card and remember it", etc.


    - Do you need to control the card after the force? Some forces are better at this than others. Think about where the card is going to end up, and where you need it to be.
    - What are you doing before the force? It can be awkward to go from cardistry-inspired fancy cuts and technical moves to the ten/twenty force.
    - Is the entire effect "in the hands"? Then you need a reason to set the deck down in order to the cross-cut force, and you need to be doing something that relies on the use of your hands that takes time. Otherwise, why not keep holding the deck?
    mertesen likes this.
  7. Definitely look into the ones mentioned by David (RealityOne).

    They are all common forces that have been time-tested and proven, and if all you know is the Hindu Shuffle Force and Classic Force, you should definitely broaden your knowledge to learn about some of the ones he lists.

    I've recently been having fun learning the Gary Ouellet Touch Force, and the Goldin Force (less reliable).
  8. I really like overhand lift shuffle force, its easy and have fooled everyone i tried it on so far
    Kuzelnik and Al e Cat Dabra like this.
  9. I will share with you a force that I (believe I) made up. But who knows, perhaps it was created by someone else centuries ago and I did not know of it. In any event, I think it appears quite fair and is deceptive. If you like it or it suits you, please feel free to use it. Let's say, for example, that the card you want to force is the queen of hearts. I spread the deck and look for the force card, and cut it to the top of the deck. Or, alternatively you could get a break below the card and do a double undercut to get it to the top. Any way that you can casually get it on top without being obvious or creating suspicion is fine.

    Then, tell your spectator, "I would like you to name a random number, not to small and not to large, say, between 5 and 20." Let's say for example, that they name the number 7. Say, "OK, I am going to have you select a random card using the number you've chosen, the number 7 - let me demonstrate what I would like you to do in a moment. You will count down from the top of the deck, dealing one card for each number, like this: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and the 7th card will be your card." (As you say this, you are dealing seven cards from the top onto the table or into their hand, one at a time, each card being placed upon the one dealt before it. Then you pick up the packet of cards you just dealt and place it back on top of the deck. So, at the end of your demonstration, the card you want to force - in this case the Queen of Hearts - is now 7th from the top.) Then, you say, "But before I have you do this, let's mix up the cards to be sure they are in a random order and no one can know which card is which." With that, you do an overhand jog shuffle, injogging the first card, shuffling off, then cutting all the cards below the injogged card to the top. You could make that final cut in your hands, to the table, or get a break below the injogged card and even cut small packets to the table - the end result will be the same. Thanks to this devious procedure, when you hand the spectator the deck to deal down to the 7th card, all seems fair, but everything is perfectly arranged so that the 7th card will in fact be the force card.
    Kuzelnik likes this.
  10. @Al e Cat Dabra This seems to be a variation of the "Automatic Placement" principle which goes back to at least Hoffman's Modern Magic in 1876!

    You can see uses in Dunninger's Nomenclature in Scarne on Card Tricks as well as A Card and a Number and Two Pile Card Trick in Encyclopedia of Card Tricks.
  11. @RealityOne, yes, but if I might humbly say, the jog shuffle addition, which I have not seen in Hoffman or elsewhere, makes a world of difference, taking it from a transparently obvious force to a subtle deception.
    RealityOne likes this.

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