Packet Order Control

[praetoritevong]

Hello all,

I'm posting to ask for your help on something. I'm looking for a way for the spectators to mix up a 12 card packet such that the 12 cards will be controlled to a known order.

Basically, I need the illusion of the spectator mixing up a 12 card packet. Whatever process is used has to end with me knowing what cards are where (they don't have to stay in order), without looking at the cards (fronts or backs).

Thanks

 

[saborfang17]

Hello all,

I'm posting to ask for your help on something. I'm looking for a way for the spectators to mix up a 12 card packet such that the 12 cards will be controlled to a known order.

Basically, I need the illusion of the spectator mixing up a 12 card packet. Whatever process is used has to end with me knowing what cards are where (they don't have to stay in order), without looking at the cards (fronts or backs).

Thanks

The way that was worded kind of confused me. Could you give me an example?

And as for not looking at the cards (fronts atleast), you could check out d+M's "Blood marking system" pdf, available for FREE right here.

 

[praetoritevong]

Hey, sorry for the confusion, and thanks for the reply.

Say the spectator takes the Ace through Six of Spades and Hearts. I want them to mix the packet up in some fashion, and still be able to know whether their card is a Spade or a Heart without seeing the cards, fronts or backs - that rules out marking systems.

Hope that makes it a bit clearer.

 

[wZEnigma]

I would look into Order from Chaos (aka Order Out of Chaos) by Lew Brooks. I believe Lee Asher has a free download link in his playground somewhere. You can teach the spectators the moves, but it won't be a free choice. Maybe you can reverse engineer some of the mechanics involved. Otherwise, I don't know, sorry.

Ian

 

[Shodan]

Check out the youtube demo for "Malone Meets Marlo" - he does exactly what you're looking for. The effect in question is "leipzig would have loved this" I think and it can be found in print in "Marlo without Tears".

You might also consider just going for some cuts and pencil dotting the card you want to return to the top; perhaps even take this one step further and teach the spectator the charlier shuffle if you think they can handle it.

Cheers,
David.

 

[KeoSilver]

Well here is a way that I just tired out right now while I am sitting at my computer. IDK how you feel about the deal one duck one method thing, but if you have 12 cards mixed glimpse the fifth card from the bottom then do the deal and when they reach the end you will know what their card is.

More to come sit tight.

 

[praetoritevong]

I would look into Order from Chaos (aka Order Out of Chaos) by Lew Brooks. I believe Lee Asher has a free download link in his playground somewhere. You can teach the spectators the moves, but it won't be a free choice. Maybe you can reverse engineer some of the mechanics involved. Otherwise, I don't know, sorry.

Ian

Ah, I remember that pdf, Stack Attack. Hmm, ok, will look into it.

Check out the youtube demo for "Malone Meets Marlo" - he does exactly what you're looking for. The effect in question is "leipzig would have loved this" I think and it can be found in print in "Marlo without Tears".

You might also consider just going for some cuts and pencil dotting the card you want to return to the top; perhaps even take this one step further and teach the spectator the charlier shuffle if you think they can handle it.

Cheers,
David.

Ah! I looked it up on YouTube, and yes, I know that sequence! I learned it from another book about a year ago. Hmm, I think that could actually work, thank you!

Well here is a way that I just tired out right now while I am sitting at my computer. IDK how you feel about the deal one duck one method thing, but if you have 12 cards mixed glimpse the fifth card from the bottom then do the deal and when they reach the end you will know what their card is.

More to come sit tight.

Unfortunately I don't have a chance to glimpse during this process. The cards are strictly out of sight the entire time (to disprove the markings theory).

 

[KeoSilver]

One way force deck!
heh cop out answer. So you want this to be completely hands free while your back is turned? IE you turn they choose the cards and go from there?

 

[ReadMoreMagicBooks]

Cyclical stack.

 

[praetoritevong]

One way force deck!
heh cop out answer. So you want this to be completely hands free while your back is turned? IE you turn they choose the cards and go from there?

Basically, yes. I want them to choose 6 red cards and 6 black cards and ask them to mix them up in some way, and still know which card is which colour. Thanks for the suggestions by the way Keo.

RMB - Deck is shuffled, unfortunately.

David - Thanks again, it's funny that I knew the method all along but didn't think of it. Even so, I needed to think about it to properly use the technique and put the puzzle pieces together - it wouldn't have happened if you hadn't replied.

I would appreciate any other sources. I do believe however that I have the answer! Nonetheless, there is always room for improvement so please let me know if you have any other suggestions, they may well be better than what I have now!

Thanks to everyone who's replied so far.

 

[KeoSilver]

It isn't a problem Prae, as long as you don't mind me pondering this idea further on my own heh. I like challenges.

 

[saborfang17]

It isn't a problem Prae, as long as you don't mind me pondering this idea further on my own heh. I like challenges.

What's to stop them from keeping it in the same order while making it sound like they're mixing them up? To be honest, without seeing the cards atleast, or having them marked before-hand in some sort of way (Either using a self-marked deck or a manufactured marked deck like the de kram deck), I think it's impossible.

 

[MattSmithies]

There is a way of the spectator to shuffle every card yet it will always be completely false...

 

[praetoritevong]

What's to stop them from keeping it in the same order while making it sound like they're mixing them up? To be honest, without seeing the cards atleast, or having them marked before-hand in some sort of way (Either using a self-marked deck or a manufactured marked deck like the de kram deck), I think it's impossible.

It's definitely not impossible.

Counting the one just given to me, I now have three solutions - that don't require marked cards. It's just that of the two I originally had, one couldn't be used here, and another wasn't terribly deceptive. For example, one solution no-one has mentioned yet that was the first I came up with was simply switching the shuffled portion for a previously memorised stacked order portion. This is technically feasible, but in this routine just led to all sorts of complications that made it really rather irritating. Also, I like not touching the cards here.

Matt - I read your PM, thank you very much. It's funny, but I actually use your memory idea in a slightly different way in another part of the routine. The second half of your suggestion wouldn't work in this routine unfortunately because they start off with 6 red cards on top of 6 black cards. However, the idea suggested by David above is somewhat similar theoretically to your otherwise great suggestion.

Thanks all.

 

[wZEnigma]

Just so you know, I'm not talking about Stack Attack, but this:

http://www.leeasher.com/lew_brooks_gift.html

Sorry for the confusion.

Ian

 

[praetoritevong]

Oh. Huh. I didn't realise it was being given away for free. It's part of Stack Attack - I remembered the name and looked it up but didn't realise that. Thanks a lot, looking into it now.

 

[D ICE R]

Prae why not use the shuffling procedure found in either Alchemical Tools or the last part of Sympathy for the Devil.

 

[praetoritevong]

Dave - Yeah, the Alchemical Tools method was the one the other Dave mentioned above from Malone meets Marlo, and works brilliantly! Sympathy was another routine my mind went to instantly, but unfortunately, since some cards are flipped face up in the sequence, and this routine (incidentally, it's from Sean Waters' Contemplation) deals only with colour, the unmixed nature would be noticed. Of course, in Sympathy the cards are not mixed, but look visibly random and could not be connected to anything anyway.

Thanks mate

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Chad Long's "Shuffling Lesson" could do the trick. The spec thinks you're showing them how to shuffle, but really they're stacking the deck themselves.

 

[D ICE R]

If all you need is a red black shuffle and not a false have you looked into something with stay stack.