REF4M by Blake Vogt?

Andrei

Elite Member
Sep 2, 2007
443
23
32
Las Vegas
www.youtube.com
Hey All,

I haven't posted in quite some time, but this is something that I think you all should kind of know.

Blake and Calen spent a week at the Kenner's back in February. This is when Blake filmed this trick.

Chris and I took them to places all up and down the strip here in Las Vegas and blew the minds of people like Mac King, Carrot Top, Nathan Burton, the Magic Club here, Chris and Me among many others.

This is a brilliant, well thought out trick and presentation, it doesn't leave you annoyed... it leaves you impressed and in awe, like you experienced real magic.

Now I know a lot of you might know my attitude on magic and magicians (especially if you read my twitter)... So I think by me coming to share my experiences with watching this trick be done to so many people recently might actually mean something.

Anyway.

Have fun.

Love,

Katie

I was there for most of those performances and can attest to the fact that this effect works. We had such a blast performing for Carrot Top - he loved it.
 
Sep 1, 2010
215
1
Magicians think to little in my opinion. But hey, everyone is different.

When i performe magic my goal for every effect is that there should be no doubt in the spectators minds that what they just witnessed was impossible. I think this whole effect looks a bit fishy and can leave the specators with a feeling that something just was not quite right. The tearing process, the display of the pieces and then the display of the restored card and the part where you rip it apart before they can look at it.

I am not saying that its the worst thing ever, but when i watched the trailer for this effect one question popped into my mind.

Why? Why would you do this version?

There are so many other versions of TnR that looks way better and in the end you can hand out the card for them to examinate. There are even versions where the spectators can hold the pieces and hand them back to you as you restore them.

Yes, you can use a borrowed deck but then again, how many spectators will hand you or borrow you a deck that they will allow you to destroy? Not many. So you will probably use your own deck. So why not use a better version?


Seriously, i need to start to release magic dvds if you can sell effects like this. I come upp with ideas like this all the time, but most of the time i put them in the category "Cool idea" in my notebook.

you do have a point about ripping the spectators deck. a lot of people are right about this effect but i think people are just looking to the negative sides all the time... tricks in general
 
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
All in all I feel that if you don't like it, don't buy it and just stop complaining. No one is forcing anyone to buy it so there's no reason to argue about anything. =P

That's what people use the internet for these days, complaining and arguing over things that don't matter and won't change anything. I don't like the tearing sequence, it doesn't look convincing to me but the rest looks pretty cool. That being said people like Katie and Andrei will say it's good because they have an association with T11 and it's good business to promote it well.
 
That's what people use the internet for these days, complaining and arguing over things that don't matter and won't change anything. I don't like the tearing sequence, it doesn't look convincing to me but the rest looks pretty cool. That being said people like Katie and Andrei will say it's good because they have an association with T11 and it's good business to promote it well.

Honestly, the spectators are not going to remember the tearing sequence at all. They will remember the restoration phase. I do not think that the spectators will at all question the tearing sequence, but hey, that's just me.
 
Nov 9, 2010
188
1
Honestly, is there really a difference between tearing up the restored card in this effect compared to turning a one dollar bill into a 20 dollar bill and then turning it back into a one dollar bill? Same thing.

My first reaction when I saw the tearing of the restored card was "Well, that sucks. I would've loved to hand it out restored." This changed pretty quickly though. Tearing a card up, restoring it and then tearing it up again makes that moment of magic, the moment you shared with the spectator, something special. A wonderful moment you shared and then it was over. I like the second tearing and even if I had a simple way of handing it out restored I might go with the second tearing anyway. Plus, if there are several spectators, they can each have their piece of the magic souvenir.
 
I would use this version above any other since this would be something my character would use.
The fact is there are different versions out there for any type of performer. If this is not for you DON`T BUY IT. Some dudes think that whatever comes out of this site is instantly for anyone, anywhere, it´s not. Different effects need different performers.

If i got the right idea from the video i have played around with this idea a few years back when i was starting in magic. I´m glad to see someone took it to the end and it looks pretty good, although you can´t give it out to people(maybe, not sure though) you cannot perform for an audience that does not believe you. Giving props out is not something you have to do, it´s actually not that important as some make it, you give props out when it is absolutely necessary and in this case it is not so you have to deal with it.

M.
 
So now REF4M is released. What did you guys think about it?

Honestly I can't stand the name of the product. In an attempt to sound "hip" or "cool" the author(s) have selected to use a form of net speak to name it's product. Frankly, we wouldn't tolerate someone using that spelling on the forums, so I think it's silly to name a product REF4M. Like the all caps and the number 4 makes it any cooler. I'm sure the artist is amazing, and the effect worth while, but based on the name alone, it will take me a long while to warm up to this effect. Frankly, all things else aside, if I COULD fail a product on name alone, this would be grounds for that.
 

ID4

Aug 20, 2010
396
191
Honestly, the spectators are not going to remember the tearing sequence at all. They will remember the restoration phase. I do not think that the spectators will at all question the tearing sequence, but hey, that's just me.

How could they not remember? As there are two tearing sequences. Maybe if the magician has a Nerualizer it could work.
 
Sep 1, 2007
733
2
How could they not remember? As there are two tearing sequences. Maybe if the magician has a Nerualizer it could work.

Same reason a spectator doesn't remember how a card was selected. The effect hasn't started yet, why would they remember? When was the last time a spectator described in detail how a card was selected? They usually start with "I chose a card, and then..."
So more often than not a spectator that sees this effect will say "He tore up the card and then..."
 
Jul 23, 2009
87
0
Ive been reading through all the comments posted on this thread about people complaining about the tear at the end. I can personally attest as i have already done this 5 times that it only makes the trick better because it leaves the spectator with a memory of an impossibility which they cannot prove. At first i never thought this would work in the real world but after trying it i will always use it as my go to impromtu effect.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,799
200
35
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
I can only think...that this effect will save me lots of money in my table-hopping gigs in a long term...only one card for a T&R Plot instead of 2? this effect is practical enough just for that...

Also..this Vogt guy...is pretty funny!! and I had no idea how his last name was spelled...jejeje
 

trikuxabi

Elite Member
Aug 14, 2010
413
10
just have 4 spectators signe 4 corners, at the end give them each one as a souvenir

Hey, that's a reaally cool idea... just force a four of whatever suit and make them sign one pip each... restore it and you have another reason to tear the card again... Nice idea!!
 
Jul 13, 2010
526
34
Just for fun, 'Vogt' is an old title of nobility and means steward, governor, bailiff or lord protector in german ;)
 
I was very impressed with the new method of doing the tear and keeping many of of the pieces in plain view of the person as well this plays big I believe and best of all they still see parts of their Sig on the cards. I also was very impressed with the teaching on the DVD as well it was not a wham bam thank you m'am but slow to the point you understood every part of the moves needed. Now I see some of you seem to be a bit bothered by re-tearing of the cards at the end this dose not bother me here is why. First for years I have and still do the good old card warp which ends with tearing of the cards in the end to hide the secret I follow that up well there you go cheap souvenir from Las Vegas but still they see one card torn upside down one fold the other way and to them there is still a miracle in their minds I do my magic for the layperson never for the magician if he is fooled or entertained thats fine but its not him out to perform for. Now this one TNR seems like a wonderful street performance trick why not at the end give out all 4 parts to 4 different people each with a story to tell about how this guy torn this card up put it back together I mean there are sooo many possibly here and even if you do have to tear it up at the end so what they were what 2 feet from you the card was there in sight the whole time in their minds you did something impossible they will keep those 4 parts for the rest of their lives thinking and looking at the edges wondering how the heck you did it and best of all you may have sparked another mind to say "hey I want to start learning the art of magic" and Wham a new brother or sister in our world! I personally can not wait to see what this young man dose next but better yet I can not wait to see what kind of magician he will be when he is in his 30's or 40's imagine the card work and slights then. Top Hat off to you young man very very well done.
 

Mike.Hankins

creator / <a href="http://www.theory11.com/tricks/
Nov 21, 2009
435
0
Sacramento, Cali
At first I was a bit disappointed but then after a few seconds I realized there was nothing to be disappointed about. I'm sure the dvd teaches you EVERYTHING you need to know about giving the card out, spectator management and everything in between that you guys might be worried about. And if not, don't let the dvd be such a crutch, try to be creative in your own presentation and patter to pull it off.

Besides, we're all magicians here who probably know several torn and restored effects out there so of course we probably aren't going to be as fooled. but remember laymen don't know the secrets to all the torn and restored effects like we do, they don't, for the most part, don't know the moves and don't forget that they don't know what to expect. I'm sure this effect is a killer and I can't wait to buy it! =)

The beauty behind this effect is the fact that there really is no need for spectator management. There are NO angle issues...and to my knowledge, is the FIRST UNGIMMICKED TnR that can be performed completely surrounded.

In my opinion, the trailer does this effect NO justice what so ever. Seeing it in person made me realize the true potential this effect really has.

Mike
 
Apr 7, 2011
143
0
the underground.
I'll admit that this does look AMAZING and very CONVINCING, but the fact that the card HAS to be torn again for 'examination' really does kill it for me - don't get me wrong, I will pick up a copy myself! It's just that besides the restoration process, the souvenir-aspect of the torn and restored plot is what REALLY sells it... but since the card is torn in half, what's the justification? I did like the "spectator one signs side-A and spectator two signs side-B" that one of the members suggested, but the spectator will just be holding HALF a card (if you know what I'm saying)...
 
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