REF4M by Blake Vogt?

Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
I'll admit that this does look AMAZING and very CONVINCING, but the fact that the card HAS to be torn again for 'examination' really does kill it for me - don't get me wrong, I will pick up a copy myself! It's just that besides the restoration process, the souvenir-aspect of the torn and restored plot is what REALLY sells it... but since the card is torn in half, what's the justification? I did like the "spectator one signs side-A and spectator two signs side-B" that one of the members suggested, but the spectator will just be holding HALF a card (if you know what I'm saying)...

Oh, man. If only it were possible to have a spectator pick a card which you have a duplicate of and switch the cards at the end...
 
Apr 7, 2011
143
0
the underground.
Oh, man. If only it were possible to have a spectator pick a card which you have a duplicate of and switch the cards at the end...

True, but I would rather have the spectator sign the card. ;) Although, with a tnr this clean and convincing, I guess you wouldn't need to have the card signed.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
True, but I would rather have the spectator sign the card. ;) Although, with a tnr this clean and convincing, I guess you wouldn't need to have the card signed.

Fact: A signature is not always everything. Nearly any Torn and Restored card you can name that can be done with signed cards don't have to be signed. They work just fine on their own.

Forget the signature. You don't need to have them ingrain their identity on to every single playing card you have with a sharpie.

Just my two cents.
 
Nov 15, 2007
1,106
2
33
Raleigh, NC
Forget the signature. You don't need to have them ingrain their identity on to every single playing card you have with a sharpie.

But how will they remember which card they selected!>!?!?!

With that said, I think REF4M looks amazing. I won't be picking this one up right away, I don't have need for another tnr, but anyone who needs a strong impromptu effect will do well to learn every nuance of this effect.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
But how will they remember which card they selected!>!?!?!

With that said, I think REF4M looks amazing. I won't be picking this one up right away, I don't have need for another tnr, but anyone who needs a strong impromptu effect will do well to learn every nuance of this effect.

They use their brains. It's in view the entire time except for 1 second in which you change it, which could easily be deceptive with a flowing rhythm.

FYI, I love the Einstein quote there. He's my hero. (Well... One of them, anyway. A major one.)
 
Apr 7, 2011
143
0
the underground.
Fact: A signature is not always everything. Nearly any Torn and Restored card you can name that can be done with signed cards don't have to be signed. They work just fine on their own.

Forget the signature. You don't need to have them ingrain their identity on to every single playing card you have with a sharpie.

Just my two cents.

While I do agree with a few of your points (although they're not facts), such effects such as the ACR or the coin bend perform "better" when the spectator signs the object.
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
While I do agree with a few of your points (although they're not facts), such effects such as the ACR or the coin bend perform "better" when the spectator signs the object.

I don't do a coin bend, I wouldn't know. But I don't think it matters with an ACR. Just let them pick a card from a face-up deck..
 
Nov 15, 2007
1,106
2
33
Raleigh, NC
They use their brains. It's in view the entire time except for 1 second in which you change it, which could easily be deceptive with a flowing rhythm.
So wait...you're telling me our spectators have brains? NOOOOO!!! How ever will I fool them now!?!

Yeah, there are a few effects where signatures MAKE the effect. Most of them are card to impossible locations. Visual TnR's can do without.

Overall I think that anyone who doesn't like the effect shouldn't buy it...and everyone who likes it...should.

As for the ending, it can be made justifiable through your presentation so I see nothing wrong with it. I actually use the Mutilated Card by Russell Prunier because of it's logical (yet impossible) ending.
 
May 4, 2011
6
0
Chicago
I will be different and say that I am fine with the tearing up at the end, but I am a bit iffy on the restoration part. In my opinion, it is not as reliable as I would like it to be. While any effect requires a lot of practice, this is one of those where it could still end up turning out less than adequate even after years of practice.
 
Sep 1, 2007
723
2
you could be really mean at the end of the effect...

"When you go and tell your friends about how you saw a magician tear a card into four pieces only to have them restore themselves one by one in front of your face, they'll never believe you. The only way they might believe you is if you handed them this restored card... (tear it up). ...Bummer."
 
Nov 7, 2008
295
0
Hofstra Univ.
you could be really mean at the end of the effect...

"When you go and tell your friends about how you saw a magician tear a card into four pieces only to have them restore themselves one by one in front of your face, they'll never believe you. The only way they might believe you is if you handed them this restored card... (tear it up). ...Bummer."

Along the same lines " you know even if i gave this back to you whole (start to tear it up) whoever you told wouldn't believe you and since you all witnessed this i think it's best we all share the card" or someting like that
 

Ang

Sep 4, 2010
268
1
You aren't clean when you show the card "completely restored", but you are officially clean after you rip it back up into pieces to have them try and solve a puzzle. Think of it like this. You present them with this effect, and in your patter you mention that this is one of the world's hardest puzzles to solve. Clearly it is impossible. Piece by piece you visually restore the card, then rip it up for them to try and solve on their own. It gives them something to remember YOU by. It's very strong, and I would highly recommend everyone give it a chance and pick it up. Definitely worth the practice.

Yeah it's a great trick if you cant get counterfeit hollingworth
 
Jun 10, 2010
1,360
1
Great solution to the problem. Is this discussed on the DVD?

It's an old idea used with Card Warp and TnR effects which can't be handed out after doing it. Even if it isn't discussed on the DVD, there's nothing to it. It's been around for a long time, it's not something you need extensively discussed. Just tear the card.
 
May 3, 2011
1
0
I shouldn't worry about the ending. I have been doing Roy Walton's "Cardwarp" (you must destroy the evidence at the end by tearing the cards) all over the world under all conditions for 40 years now and never had any questions or suspicion. As always, it is how you present the ending as much as the rest. Done confidently and casually it appears a logical way to end. I will now add REF4M to my repertoire as it is superb, and I envisage no problems at all. So my advice is - "Don't worry". Just do it, tear at the end, say "Put these in your pocket (which gets the heat off them as they are pocketed) , take them home and see if you can restore them" as you move smoothly on to the next effect, or your farewell. Confidence is all.
 
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