Spec. Cred. :: My Idea

[ZacEckstein]

This is out of the box, and goes against the natural grain of things... I have 2 thoughts presentation wise.

* Give the audience 100% of the credit. Now I know some of you are saying "Screw that Zac!", but hear me out. although, before I get into it, there is one really BIG draw back... The audience probably won't remember you, they will remember what they did. But if you are into giving your audience a nice time and a memrable one at that, I urge you to do this.

You will notice in this video at 5:51 I am performing an effect called "The Big Tiny",
http://vimeo.com/6164457

You will notice how literally the spectator did nearly everything! I didn't do a damn thing at all. One of them still asked "How did you do that?" Then i reiterated what happened and the fact that I didn't do anything but shuffle and dealt where she wanted me to. They are now fully 100% credited to this outcome. Also note that at the end of the effect, I say,

" If you did this right, when you wrote your name on the side of the deck and when we dealt the card and you were thinking of happy thoughts... This is now a good luck charm made specifically for you for your own personal needs."

She tried to pay for her experience by tipping me (I hate accepting tips), Which will only cheapen the experience for her. I refuse it and say I do this for you.

What happened that day will now live on for as long as she lives. I don't get anything out of it except that I know for a fact that they were truly amazed but they will never remember me again... And that makes it truly worth it.


- Zac

 

[cm763]

I'm not exactly sure how that goes against the grain...it's a pretty common presentational style, from what I've heard (and do). Ranks right up there with audience participation (which Big Tiny also has...I love that effect; one of my favourites from the TA set, heh).

Good call on not accepting tips, too. Ever since reading Justin Millers Strolling Hands notes (I think those were the notes...anyway, the ones about restaurant magic), I've really seen the light regarding tips (in a restaurant setting--busking is a whole 'nother story, obviously, heh).

Thanks for sharing the video, though.

 

[ZacEckstein]

I'm not exactly sure how that goes against the grain...it's a pretty common presentational style, from what I've heard (and do). Ranks right up there with audience participation (which Big Tiny also has...I love that effect; one of my favourites from the TA set, heh).

Good call on not accepting tips, too. Ever since reading Justin Millers Strolling Hands notes (I think those were the notes...anyway, the ones about restaurant magic), I've really seen the light regarding tips (in a restaurant setting--busking is a whole 'nother story, obviously, heh).

Thanks for sharing the video, though.

Well, most magicians are more of "Look at me! LOOK AT ME!!! (In demonic voice lol)" This idea is going way passed audience participation lol. This is a complete revamping of an idea in magic. There is nothing better we can do, than to give the audience something they will never forget... That phrase gets tossed around too much.

 

[cm763]

Well, most magicians are more of "Look at me! LOOK AT ME!!! (In demonic voice lol)" This idea is going way passed audience participation lol. This is a complete revamping of an idea in magic. There is nothing better we can do, than to give the audience something they will never forget... That phrase gets tossed around too much.

You took my reference the wrong way, heh...I didn't mean it's the same as audience participation in terms of what's happening, just in it's relevance/usage by people (then again, it just may be the area I live, I suppose--cause this really doesn't sound like a "complete revamping" at all, to me...there's nothing new being brought to the table here. ).

But yeah, I agree that a lot of magicians online do seem to have an ego (just take a stroll around the Cafe ). However, I've seen enough magicians have the same "give them the glory" type of presentation to really question what you're bringing to the table here. Not trying to be rude, of course, and it's a very good thing to bring up (edit: And it's sad, cause I rarely see it talked about on T11--possibly why you're labeling it as "a complete revamping"...I think I've realized the answer to what I was asking with this post, heh), just curious in what way it's new (other than giving the spectator the glory for the effect, since that's been done, and is still being done, by quite a few magicians; again, I can only really speak for those I know locally, as I don't really keep up with every magician on the 'net, lol).

But yeah, thanks for bringing it to light for those who never considered it. It definitely doesn't get talked about enough on here, and should probably be invoked by a lot more people (who perform in a closeup, more "organic" way, in my opinion, as it suits that style of performance best). Perhaps we'll see a wave of new people dropping the ego and letting their spectators take a little bit of credit. ....naw, can't see that happening.

 

[ZacEckstein]

You took my reference the wrong way, heh...I didn't mean it's the same as audience participation in terms of what's happening, just in it's relevance/usage by people (then again, it just may be the area I live, I suppose--cause this really doesn't sound like a "complete revamping" at all, to me...there's nothing new being brought to the table here. ).

But yeah, I agree that a lot of magicians online do seem to have an ego (just take a stroll around the Cafe ). However, I've seen enough magicians have the same "give them the glory" type of presentation to really question what you're bringing to the table here. Not trying to be rude, of course, and it's a very good thing to bring up (edit: And it's sad, cause I rarely see it talked about on T11--possibly why you're labeling it as "a complete revamping"...I think I've realized the answer to what I was asking with this post, heh), just curious in what way it's new (other than giving the spectator the glory for the effect, since that's been done, and is still being done, by quite a few magicians; again, I can only really speak for those I know locally, as I don't really keep up with every magician on the 'net, lol).

But yeah, thanks for bringing it to light for those who never considered it. It definitely doesn't get talked about enough on here, and should probably be invoked by a lot more people (who perform in a closeup, more "organic" way, in my opinion, as it suits that style of performance best). Perhaps we'll see a wave of new people dropping the ego and letting their spectators take a little bit of credit. ....naw, can't see that happening.

Wow, I didn't know so many magicians do that. I haven't really seen it around before. If it's popular cool.

 

[RikAllen]

Wow, I didn't know so many magicians do that. I haven't really seen it around before. If it's popular cool.

Working magicians do it quite often.

I have 2 different effects where the spectator cuts to the aces. (just one example).

A lot of new, younger magicians may or may not have adopted this yet, but it's not new. Like cm said, talking about it on T11 is probably a new concept.

And I totally agree with giving the credit over to your audience, a lot of times it baffles them even more.

-Rik

 

[ZacEckstein]

Working magicians do it quite often.

I have 2 different effects where the spectator cuts to the aces. (just one example).

A lot of new, younger magicians may or may not have adopted this yet, but it's not new. Like cm said, talking about it on T11 is probably a new concept.

And I totally agree with giving the credit over to your audience, a lot of times it baffles them even more.

-Rik

I am glad you do that. But i am not talking about them cutting to the aces. I am saying revamp your performance to something very meaningful. That's why I used "The Big Tiny" as an example. To me, it's the perfect effect.

 

[mayniac]

I don't get anything out of it except that I know for a fact that they were truly amazed but they will never remember me again... And that makes it truly worth it.

Um, so you DON'T want them to remember you? What's the point then? If anything, you want your spectator to remember you. They may not remember all the effects that you did but if they remember you, then I personally think you've done your job.

 

[ZacEckstein]

Um, so you DON'T want them to remember you? What's the point then? If anything, you want your spectator to remember you. They may not remember all the effects that you did but if they remember you, then I personally think you've done your job.

Nope, I don't want them to remember me (only if it is street magic). I want them to get all the credit. I want it to be their experience and I was just some guy who said "Do this.". Most people aren't ready to accept that idea (such as yourself) but that's okay. It comes with experience and eventually you will understand what is really important. Which isn't you, it's the moment and memory of astonishment for THEM. You will realize that whatever will make them happy and have a better day is more important than remembering you. My performance of "The Big Tiny" is a perfect example of what I think all magic should be like. In street magic at least.

 

[Luis Vega]

Nope, I don't want them to remember me (only if it is street magic). I want them to get all the credit. I want it to be their experience and I was just some guy who said "Do this.". Most people aren't ready to accept that idea (such as yourself) but that's okay. It comes with experience and eventually you will understand what is really important. Which isn't you, it's the moment and memory of astonishment for THEM. You will realize that whatever will make them happy and have a better day is more important than remembering you. My performance of "The Big Tiny" is a perfect example of what I think all magic should be like. In street magic at least.

What?!!! you don´t want people to remember you?!! is ridiculous, then how do you expect to succed in magic? giving the people all the credit is good, but is just not right for them to not remember you.
The experience is good, but if nobody remembers you then that experience is lost in little time because they will just remember the trick and not the performer so that doesn´t make you best of all those magicians who doesn´t know how to perform and only do tricks but no magic. when I perform I am remembered for what I am, they usually remember the tricks but when they see me in the street or the mall, they come to me and tell me how much they liked the last night show.
I think this is not good advice, if you wanna be "some guy" for the rest of your magic life, is ok, as you said before, but if you are gonna start to do stand-up magic, you need to stop thinking that way and realize that a magician doesn´t work that way

 

[ZacEckstein]

What?!!! you don´t want people to remember you?!! is ridiculous, then how do you expect to succed in magic? giving the people all the credit is good, but is just not right for them to not remember you.
The experience is good, but if nobody remembers you then that experience is lost in little time because they will just remember the trick and not the performer so that doesn´t make you best of all those magicians who doesn´t know how to perform and only do tricks but no magic. when I perform I am remembered for what I am, they usually remember the tricks but when they see me in the street or the mall, they come to me and tell me how much they liked the last night show.
I think this is not good advice, if you wanna be "some guy" for the rest of your magic life, is ok, as you said before, but if you are gonna start to do stand-up magic, you need to stop thinking that way and realize that a magician doesn´t work that way

First of all, I said (Only in street magic). I understand stand up is a different animal.

Going back to the subject... In the street, I do wanna be remembered as some guy. I want it to be their own personal experience, I don't want to have anything to do with it. I am like the guy doing backstage work while the actors get the glory. You see, Being a magician automatically makes you special (Better than them), and I don't like that idea. I want them to think that they can create the miracles. there are so many problems in today's world. If they are able to do something impossible (Like "The Big Tiny") maybe they will think "Maybe I can make it through the week", "I'll find a way to pay that bill", and so on. It gives them a good self-esteem and makes them feel better about themselves instead of saying "How did he do that?" they are saying "I didn't know I could do that". And they get to feel special. It's a hard pill to swallow, but maybe people will start to realize it's not about you, it's about them.

 

[cm763]

Sorry it took so long for me to reply again, but I was at the Daniel Garcia lecture in Toronto, heh. It was a long (and frustrating--I officially hate Toronto traffic) trip there (and back), but totally worth it!

Anyway, a newer effect that I was thinking about was Search and Destroy by Aaron Fisher...totally in their hands, credit goes totally to them. He even talks about it on the DVD, if I recall correctly.

But yeah, it's definitely not talked about here on T11 all that much. At least the discussion starts now; this thread is a good start.

 

[ZacEckstein]

Sorry it took so long for me to reply again, but I was at the Daniel Garcia lecture in Toronto, heh. It was a long (and frustrating--I officially hate Toronto traffic) trip there (and back), but totally worth it!

Anyway, a newer effect that I was thinking about was Search and Destroy by Lee Asher...totally in their hands, credit goes totally to them. He even talks about it on the DVD, if I recall correctly.

But yeah, it's definitely not talked about here on T11 all that much. At least the discussion starts now; this thread is a good start.

Thanks, search and destroy is a great example as well!

 

[Luis Vega]

First of all, I said (Only in street magic). I understand stand up is a different animal.

Going back to the subject... In the street, I do wanna be remembered as some guy. I want it to be their own personal experience, I don't want to have anything to do with it. I am like the guy doing backstage work while the actors get the glory. You see, Being a magician automatically makes you special (Better than them), and I don't like that idea. I want them to think that they can create the miracles. there are so many problems in today's world. If they are able to do something impossible (Like "The Big Tiny") maybe they will think "Maybe I can make it through the week", "I'll find a way to pay that bill", and so on. It gives them a good self-esteem and makes them feel better about themselves instead of saying "How did he do that?" they are saying "I didn't know I could do that". And they get to feel special. It's a hard pill to swallow, but maybe people will start to realize it's not about you, it's about them.

Maybe you haven´t realize but people don´t think they could do magic, they think that somehow you did it, you don´t understand how people minds works, that won´t make them feel as special as you think, because they have to get out of their troubles by themselves.
If you feel that you are better than them for being a magician (even if you don´t agree with the idea, but no one here has said that being a magician makes you better that anyone, you said it) then you are wrong, you are just different and everybody is different, maybe they are better at somethings that you are not good, maybe in their field they are the special ones and you are just another spectator.
Besides, why not use your street magic to promote your stand up show? after the street magic you could say "Hey I hope you like it, I´m making a bigger show tonight so come if you want" or something like that, but that won´t happen if you are just "some guy"

 

[ZacEckstein]

Maybe you haven´t realize but people don´t think they could do magic, they think that somehow you did it, you don´t understand how people minds works, that won´t make them feel as special as you think, because they have to get out of their troubles by themselves.
If you feel that you are better than them for being a magician (even if you don´t agree with the idea, but no one here has said that being a magician makes you better that anyone, you said it) then you are wrong, you are just different and everybody is different, maybe they are better at somethings that you are not good, maybe in their field they are the special ones and you are just another spectator.
Besides, why not use your street magic to promote your stand up show? after the street magic you could say "Hey I hope you like it, I´m making a bigger show tonight so come if you want" or something like that, but that won´t happen if you are just "some guy"

(sigh) You obviously are missing the whole point. I am done trying to talk to you. Maybe someone else will have the patience to help you understand. I guess it's lack of experience that is making you this way. You will eventually see that your route... Won't make you happy. Sure it's fun now. But you are going to start to realize what magic is. Good luck, you're gonna need it.


- Zac

 

[cm763]

Just throwing this out there, since there seems to be some confusion...but you don't have to completely throw credit their way. It's like a balancing act...you did the effect "with" them, instead of just them doing it--but exactly how much credit you throw their way is where the "balancing act" comes into play.

I wouldn't agree with it being a complete "they did it" type of thing...they know they're not magic. But, with your help, who knows what they're capable of? Who knows what hidden powers lurk within? That really opens up the flood gates of opportunity for things to happen, as it makes it a tad more believable.

Not a new idea, but definitely important to think about regarding this topic.

Also, I would agree, using your street magic to advertise your stage or parlour shows (if you have any, of course--otherwise, it's still an opportunity to give away your business card) would be a great use of your time and energy (plus you get some practice out of the deal).

 

[ZacEckstein]

Just throwing this out there, since there seems to be some confusion...but you don't have to completely throw credit their way. It's like a balancing act...you did the effect "with" them, instead of just them doing it--but exactly how much credit you throw their way is where the "balancing act" comes into play.

I wouldn't agree with it being a complete "they did it" type of thing...they know they're not magic. But, with your help, who knows what they're capable of? Who knows what hidden powers lurk within? That really opens up the flood gates of opportunity for things to happen, as it makes it a tad more believable.

Not a new idea, but definitely important to think about regarding this topic.

Also, I would agree, using your street magic to advertise your stage or parlour shows (if you have any, of course--otherwise, it's still an opportunity to give away your business card) would be a great use of your time and energy (plus you get some practice out of the deal).

That's certainly a way to go!

 

[Luis Vega]

(sigh) You obviously are missing the whole point. I am done trying to talk to you. Maybe someone else will have the patience to help you understand. I guess it's lack of experience that is making you this way. You will eventually see that your route... Won't make you happy. Sure it's fun now. But you are going to start to realize what magic is. Good luck, you're gonna need it.


- Zac

Do you even know me?Do whatever you want, I do have a lot of experience on magic, you don´t even know me and you are judging me and assuming that I´m a beginner which I´m not , I understand that making a tv special makes you think that you have more experience than me, but I have been on TV also and on a lot of more places and I´m not telling everyone here that my way is the right way, I´ve been doing magic a while now just because I´m relatively new in this forums doesn´t mean I´m a begginer, it means that I am very busy, you are nobody to judge me and think that I don´t know how the magic works

many magicians are in the same way that I go, I always involve heavily the spectators, but that doesn´t mean that I take the credit, they give me the credit and I make them feel better because they participated in the show. also I like to chat with them after the show is over and get to know them. there´s a lot of ways to help people and I have my ways to help them.

If you are going to run away from everybody that disagrees with you, then fine but "You will eventually see that your route... Won't make you happy"
your way is your way and just because I disagree doesn´t mean I am doing my magic wrong, it just mean I´m different and that I am in a different enviroment that you, where people is different and so magic must be different.

 

[ZacEckstein]

Do you even know me?Do whatever you want, I do have a lot of experience on magic, you don´t even know me and you are judging me and assuming that I´m a beginner which I´m not , I understand that making a tv special makes you think that you have more experience than me, but I have been on TV also and on a lot of more places and I´m not telling everyone here that my way is the right way, I´ve been doing magic a while now just because I´m relatively new in this forums doesn´t mean I´m a begginer, it means that I am very busy, you are nobody to judge me and think that I don´t know how the magic works

many magicians are in the same way that I go, I always involve heavily the spectators, but that doesn´t mean that I take the credit, they give me the credit and I make them feel better because they participated in the show. also I like to chat with them after the show is over and get to know them. there´s a lot of ways to help people and I have my ways to help them.

If you are going to run away from everybody that disagrees with you, then fine but "You will eventually see that your route... Won't make you happy"
your way is your way and just because I disagree doesn´t mean I am doing my magic wrong, it just mean I´m different and that I am in a different enviroment that you, where people is different and so magic must be different.

Fair enough, you are right... Maybe you do have a lot of experience, it just doesn't show to me. If you don't like what I say or I don;t like what you say, we can agree to disagree. Maybe my way isn't the right way for you. You got your way and I got my way. We both are happy and have fun doing what we do. Let's leave it there.

 

[Luis Vega]

Fair enough, you are right... Maybe you do have a lot of experience, it just doesn't show to me. If you don't like what I say or I don;t like what you say, we can agree to disagree. Maybe my way isn't the right way for you. You got your way and I got my way. We both are happy and have fun doing what we do. Let's leave it there.

Ok, I´ll leave it there

By the way I did like you last video, the TV special, you are a good performer