Andrei - You keep insisting I'm looking at this like a magician. That's not the case. I'm not trying to make a magic show out of flourishing, that's the last thing I'm after here. What I'm talking about is making an object manipulation act of any sort into a theatrical production instead of being purely a display of skill. It has nothing to do with magic. And honestly, I have the same basic complaints about magic as well. Presented without some kind of theatrical effort it gets boring fast.
I am not really interested in watching someone just show me what they can do. I know that some people are. I know that some people are not interested in creating a theatrical show. That's why, when people are asking for purely technical advice, that's what I try to give them (to my limited abilities). However, we have been discussing the idea of turning a prop manipulation act like flourishing into a theatrical act which would appeal to a wider demographic by default. Not everyone wants to watch people show off (which is what a display of skill is). Some people do, or they like to see certain things shown off. In my time I've seen a lot of manipulation acts and quite simply I've seen so many amazing skills that there's not much that impresses me any more unless it's got some kind of theatrical element to it. Quite simply .. I've seen it. And once you've seen impressive levels of skill once, you have to see more impressive levels to be further impressed. Having watched as many as I have, not much impresses me any more and the ones that do impress me don't last longer than, "Hey, that guy is good."
I fear we've probably said all that can be said here. You're for pure displays of skill, I'm not. Both are 100% valid. I'm not asking you to change and I don't think you're asking me to change, but we have a fundamental disagreement on what's entertaining. I wish you success and prosperity in your choice of performance (or not, as the case may be).
Christopher,
I think you're absolutely right, we've said all there is to say. We're both entertained by different things. However, the last thing I'd want for people to get out of the discussion is that the only people to appreciate cardistry without a story are those who are interested in skill based displays while the story element is more for a wider demographic. That's not true. Ultimately, a good balance of either of those presentations would be a success. I've approached this conversation as such with intent for anyone looking to take it to that level. I'm not trying to justify mediocrity by saying "
some would love the base level show off".
By all means include theatrics. Please DO include dance, comedy, audience participation, music, choreography, costume and lighting in your shows. I thought those were obvious essential elements and that I didn't have to state with my sans-story approach. That's what everyone should strive for if the goal is a large production show. However, the "story/patter" aspect is a non essential element for the success of a large/small production show (as pointed out in some cirque shows which do not have story which are a big hit and those that do have one, which did not do so great).
I can certainly see the value of incorporating a story first. It's arguably the cheapest and quickest way to give your performances that boost in value. However, prior to a story, I would first aim to select my music, choreography, lighting, audience participation, jokes, rising action, climax, etc. Those are the things that will ultimately indicate how entertaining the show will be. Those are the aspects of show-biz that we as "entertainers" should strive to perfect - because by that point, if the elements align, the story will not make or break my show (although it can potentially hurt it as in "BELIEVE"s case).
This thread wasn't really approached with an open mind initially. It was more, "include a story in your cardistry, otherwise it's inferior and people won't care." Simply is untrue. One of the things I set out to disprove. It's certainly one approach of many great ways to put on a show.
