I think that is Morgician's exact point. The community has changed, and placed importance on the wrong things. So it only makes sense that the same community praises the wrong things as well.
That is very far from the truth...
-ThrallMind
The most amazing trick...
- Thread starter Morgan B
- Start date
I think that is Morgician's exact point. The community has changed, and placed importance on the wrong things. So it only makes sense that the same community praises the wrong things as well.
That is very far from the truth...
-ThrallMind
Thanks for the kind words Morg. Onto the next question in this less than quickfire round of lurve...
With the 3 chaps in question, The obvious choice when taking advice of only one of the 3 would be number 1, the working pro.
Then again, there is many people out there of a 4th category - A real working pro with his own routines and effects... But the acknowledgment of these boys and girls takes away from the question really!
I'm sure that both 1 and 3 could give great advice from either side. Imagine that number 3 was to introduce you to a brand new principle or idea in magic. It'd be a cool thing, but it could take the advice from numero uno to get the most out of the concept!
I've met hundreds of magicians from professionals to hobbyists and you can learn at least one thing off pretty much anyone.
Each person has a different path in magic, will have explored different things and encountered different challenges. So no one is void from giving some little words of wisdom...
Either way, I can see the point you're making - And in times like these I'm sure that things will begin to change as there's less money to be thrown around so people will [hopefully] be spending much wiser!
D.
With the 3 chaps in question, The obvious choice when taking advice of only one of the 3 would be number 1, the working pro.
Then again, there is many people out there of a 4th category - A real working pro with his own routines and effects... But the acknowledgment of these boys and girls takes away from the question really!
I'm sure that both 1 and 3 could give great advice from either side. Imagine that number 3 was to introduce you to a brand new principle or idea in magic. It'd be a cool thing, but it could take the advice from numero uno to get the most out of the concept!
I've met hundreds of magicians from professionals to hobbyists and you can learn at least one thing off pretty much anyone.
Each person has a different path in magic, will have explored different things and encountered different challenges. So no one is void from giving some little words of wisdom...
Either way, I can see the point you're making - And in times like these I'm sure that things will begin to change as there's less money to be thrown around so people will [hopefully] be spending much wiser!
D.
How many bad magicians do you know? Not friends or amateurs but bad professionals.
Well the thing with your scenario is that everyone knows the professionals. Lets take Bob Smith for example. He has been working professionally for 15 years but has no books or dvds put. Now he goes on Theory11 and sees somebody ask a question. Bob answers. Now Wayne Houchin comes along and posts a different answer. Who would the original poster trust more? Wayne Houchin is a well known releaser though maybe not the best performer (not true, just using an example - Wayne rocks!) whereas Bob Smith is 'an anonymous poster on an internet forum'. We have no idea how long Bob has been performing or any details like that. For all we know, he is a 10 year old youtuber. I think most people would take Wayne's advice in this circumstance, purely because we know that he's got a firm base in magic.
A lot of magicians don't get to actually meet and hang out with other magicians - at least those that are actually good. I'd hazard to guess that the number of current generation magicians that have expansive magical circles with interesting viewpoints and knowledge is quite, quite low.
For that matter, I'd wager that most current generation magicians don't even know other magicians personally. Maybe a friend who thought it was also cool and learned a few things with a deck of cards, but that's it.
This alone can drastically change your outlook on magic. If you have a lot of magician friends with varied interests, approaches, and concepts to magic, you'll be surrounded with new and different ideas, and probably be more receptive towards strangers telling you things. After all, they're just adding on to the new and different ideas you already hear.
If it's just you and your DVDs, then those guys are your magic circle, so you respond to them. They know just how you like it.
Another reason, like has been mentioned, is fame - it's sort of like how you see those tabloids at the grocery store telling you where Jude Law was eating lunch, or what kind of dog Paris Hilton might be buying, and you're like, "No one really cares about that, do they?" But they've got cards inside for you to subscribe - to get this stuff delivered to your home - and you know people have done it.
Not saying that famous magicians are incompetent and only capable of spewing drivel on the internet or anything. Rather, they're the stars of the tabloid, and younger, current generation magicians are the eager subscribers.
For that matter, I'd wager that most current generation magicians don't even know other magicians personally. Maybe a friend who thought it was also cool and learned a few things with a deck of cards, but that's it.
This alone can drastically change your outlook on magic. If you have a lot of magician friends with varied interests, approaches, and concepts to magic, you'll be surrounded with new and different ideas, and probably be more receptive towards strangers telling you things. After all, they're just adding on to the new and different ideas you already hear.
If it's just you and your DVDs, then those guys are your magic circle, so you respond to them. They know just how you like it.
Another reason, like has been mentioned, is fame - it's sort of like how you see those tabloids at the grocery store telling you where Jude Law was eating lunch, or what kind of dog Paris Hilton might be buying, and you're like, "No one really cares about that, do they?" But they've got cards inside for you to subscribe - to get this stuff delivered to your home - and you know people have done it.
Not saying that famous magicians are incompetent and only capable of spewing drivel on the internet or anything. Rather, they're the stars of the tabloid, and younger, current generation magicians are the eager subscribers.
Once again Morgian's well informed verse falls upon deaf ears and he sings only to the choir.
I won't say anything more for the simple reason I have nothing more to add, Morgician (yet again I might add) has expressed pretty much everything I could possibly have wanted to say. I've not been in magic for very long at all, in fact I'm only coming close to 3 years now... And yet, even I can see what he's talking about.
A fantastic post, Morgician, thoroughly enjoyed reading it as always.
- Sean
I won't say anything more for the simple reason I have nothing more to add, Morgician (yet again I might add) has expressed pretty much everything I could possibly have wanted to say. I've not been in magic for very long at all, in fact I'm only coming close to 3 years now... And yet, even I can see what he's talking about.
A fantastic post, Morgician, thoroughly enjoyed reading it as always.
- Sean
As always that was an interesting and thought provoking post. I don't really have much to say on this one as I completely agree with you and I don't believe I can add anything meaningful to what you said, just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to write these posts, I appreciate them.
Ahh, Thrallmind, it is excellent to see you in this thread – I have missed you! I wondered if you had gone the way of Steerpike, good to know you are still alive and kicking – hope magic is treating you like you treat it! Thanks for posting, as always, bang on.
Randomwrath, you make a good point – and I thought about that – but “Bob’s” post should still have value – it is up to YOU the reader to look at them as equals, and then decide by the merit of the information provided – STATUS aside, which one makes the most sense to me. So, instead of trusting status, trust yourself to choose what advice appears like sound judgement.
Toyrobot – you clarify some interesting reasons – if it’s all you know, why trust anyone else. Regardless, this is a status issue – and I refer you to the above comment. However, I can totally see where you are coming from, and that does make sense.
I guess making an informed choice comes down to you – as education in magic is all you have to make a choice...and when your teachers of magic tell you something, you tend to take it at face value...when a classmate tells you something...you tend to dismiss it. The problem in magic – is sometimes your classmate has more experience on a subject than the teacher.
Cheers.
PS -Sean Raf, always love seeing you in a thread – thanks for the kind words and support, same to you Squ!rrel. Louis, thank you.
Not surprisingly, posts from the usual brilliant minds that I see on this thread, and I am flattered they came in to save the day on this one – however, it was nice to see some new blood speak up and I appreciate that my words weren’t wasted in the abyss of “Did I choose the right DVD for Christmas” and “Favourite Deck” threads.
Thanks.
Randomwrath, you make a good point – and I thought about that – but “Bob’s” post should still have value – it is up to YOU the reader to look at them as equals, and then decide by the merit of the information provided – STATUS aside, which one makes the most sense to me. So, instead of trusting status, trust yourself to choose what advice appears like sound judgement.
Toyrobot – you clarify some interesting reasons – if it’s all you know, why trust anyone else. Regardless, this is a status issue – and I refer you to the above comment. However, I can totally see where you are coming from, and that does make sense.
I guess making an informed choice comes down to you – as education in magic is all you have to make a choice...and when your teachers of magic tell you something, you tend to take it at face value...when a classmate tells you something...you tend to dismiss it. The problem in magic – is sometimes your classmate has more experience on a subject than the teacher.
Cheers.
PS -Sean Raf, always love seeing you in a thread – thanks for the kind words and support, same to you Squ!rrel. Louis, thank you.
Not surprisingly, posts from the usual brilliant minds that I see on this thread, and I am flattered they came in to save the day on this one – however, it was nice to see some new blood speak up and I appreciate that my words weren’t wasted in the abyss of “Did I choose the right DVD for Christmas” and “Favourite Deck” threads.
Thanks.
You implied magicians speak to others about bad magicians, what is your evidence to support this?
It doesn't really matter, good thread none the less.
Sean I know what you mean about being new to magic I am barely going into my 8th month of magic but I am very much into it. This leads me to another point that has something to do with morgicians original statement.
When some of you read this then don't take it the wrong way because it is true for just a portion of the readers. With more experience comes some good and some bad, the bad being stubborn, inconsiderate, cocky, and etc. It seems that while me and Sean (and others) may be newer to magic, it is because of our experience we are willing to listen to others. I have no clue how much experience Morgician has in magic but he has words of experience in this subject.
Magicians with six or more years of experience this may be ignored because they have their experience even though it may be the most important post they ever read. So before many of you cast this off because of your experience or your expertise or your popularity it is easy to forget that you can be wrong, you can mess up, you could just be mediocre.
Listen to Morigician on this one everybody and try and look back on w/e you are doing and try to see what he is talking about.
When some of you read this then don't take it the wrong way because it is true for just a portion of the readers. With more experience comes some good and some bad, the bad being stubborn, inconsiderate, cocky, and etc. It seems that while me and Sean (and others) may be newer to magic, it is because of our experience we are willing to listen to others. I have no clue how much experience Morgician has in magic but he has words of experience in this subject.
Magicians with six or more years of experience this may be ignored because they have their experience even though it may be the most important post they ever read. So before many of you cast this off because of your experience or your expertise or your popularity it is easy to forget that you can be wrong, you can mess up, you could just be mediocre.
Listen to Morigician on this one everybody and try and look back on w/e you are doing and try to see what he is talking about.
You assume that more knowledge and the ease of which it is obtained is better. Not too long ago, it was harder to get "poor" quality stuff out there - when quality sold and the it was required because demand was lower. Now that demand is so high, they can supply you with anything.
Would I be what I am today...yes, would others...maybe...maybe not - but the question is - is it good what they "are" today?
ya know... daniel madisons whole "umc" thing, everyone wants to get in (it seems), "the devil convinced the world he didnt exist" (or something like that), re - arange it and it makes, "the devil convinced the world he existed.
now I dont wanna start making something out of nothing, maybe their isnt a umc, maybe dm is showing us what magic used to be - a secret, no explanation, with just a few people in on it?
Im not trying to find out what the umc is, im saying that magic is so popular, maybe dm is trying to show us what it used to be, and what it can be?
now I dont wanna start making something out of nothing, maybe their isnt a umc, maybe dm is showing us what magic used to be - a secret, no explanation, with just a few people in on it?
Im not trying to find out what the umc is, im saying that magic is so popular, maybe dm is trying to show us what it used to be, and what it can be?
I only read the first two paragraphs but here's what I think... Just joking. This was a very thought provoking thread.
The natural progression seems to be working against the development of magicians that hold the same values as some of us here.
Most professionals, who have devoted their life to magic, might rarely give solid advice when they know its falling upon deaf ears. And they understand that magic is composed of secrets. They would not give away their work (their life) to someone who isn't willing to dedicate themselves as much as they did. Not only to the practice of technique but the practice of what they value with respect to magic. And only in person. And only when the moon completely covers the... With this maybe I'm going to far BUT the point is, like has been said, supply and demand. Not enough supply and too much demand. Isn't that normal with magic? People just don't understand that that's how magic is/was meant to be?
I remember when I first started and low and behold I walked into a real live magic shop! The owner taught me some magic and it consisted of teaching me a letter and going home to write it over and over. And if I came back and my M looked like a W I'd have to go back home and practice some more. Eventually I got to learn some words and later on maybe even a sentence or two. Metaphorically speaking a paragraph was out of the question with him since, as I already knew how to write, it was up to me to compose. Strangely enough, this didn't come as a surprise to me! I knew there was something about magic where you guard your own secrets and respect those of others.
So in hindsight, this guy of 50 years was probably one of the best magic instructors/performers I've ever encountered. No DVDs, no Books and certainly no Internet to boot. And that is one reason why many magicians with valuable experience simply keep it to themselves. Because it's valuable. Guys like this would not give out information freely, so we do have to look for an easier alternative now don't we?
In comes instant gratification with the rise of technology and click-buy, that which many (not) reading this have known no other way. You have a new breed of magicians and one which Ken from above wouldn't dream about teaching his good stuff. But there is another guy who would LOVE to show you his "good stuff." That's the creator who makes some big cash on his (or others) works. Wit the lack of Kens and too many creators it seems the only exposure people are getting are the creators. And many of them would kick Ken in the balls and run off with his magic, then read you his theories.
Like I said at first, the natural progression seems to be working against the development of magicians that hold the same values as some of us here. Since this is getting long winded I'll cut off now.
Fans.
The natural progression seems to be working against the development of magicians that hold the same values as some of us here.
Most professionals, who have devoted their life to magic, might rarely give solid advice when they know its falling upon deaf ears. And they understand that magic is composed of secrets. They would not give away their work (their life) to someone who isn't willing to dedicate themselves as much as they did. Not only to the practice of technique but the practice of what they value with respect to magic. And only in person. And only when the moon completely covers the... With this maybe I'm going to far BUT the point is, like has been said, supply and demand. Not enough supply and too much demand. Isn't that normal with magic? People just don't understand that that's how magic is/was meant to be?
I remember when I first started and low and behold I walked into a real live magic shop! The owner taught me some magic and it consisted of teaching me a letter and going home to write it over and over. And if I came back and my M looked like a W I'd have to go back home and practice some more. Eventually I got to learn some words and later on maybe even a sentence or two. Metaphorically speaking a paragraph was out of the question with him since, as I already knew how to write, it was up to me to compose. Strangely enough, this didn't come as a surprise to me! I knew there was something about magic where you guard your own secrets and respect those of others.
So in hindsight, this guy of 50 years was probably one of the best magic instructors/performers I've ever encountered. No DVDs, no Books and certainly no Internet to boot. And that is one reason why many magicians with valuable experience simply keep it to themselves. Because it's valuable. Guys like this would not give out information freely, so we do have to look for an easier alternative now don't we?
In comes instant gratification with the rise of technology and click-buy, that which many (not) reading this have known no other way. You have a new breed of magicians and one which Ken from above wouldn't dream about teaching his good stuff. But there is another guy who would LOVE to show you his "good stuff." That's the creator who makes some big cash on his (or others) works. Wit the lack of Kens and too many creators it seems the only exposure people are getting are the creators. And many of them would kick Ken in the balls and run off with his magic, then read you his theories.
Like I said at first, the natural progression seems to be working against the development of magicians that hold the same values as some of us here. Since this is getting long winded I'll cut off now.
Fans.
By the way great thread bro.
[edit] By the way sorry I posted in it. No thoughts on my stupid idea?
[edit] By the way sorry I posted in it. No thoughts on my stupid idea?
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