The Weekly Debate: Question #7...

[Dylan P.]

Hey guys! Sorry it took me so long to get back. the day after I wrote the last "Weekly Debate" my computer crashed and we had to replace it. But anyway, now I'm back and ready to jump right back into the swing of things.
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Well, over the years, tons of contraversy has come up about different magicians. "Do they use stooges?" or "Is it all an edited video?" Well, one of the biggest magician mysteries of all time was centered around Harry Houdini. There was large debate about how he died. The correct answer is this: "Houdini, was punched in the stomack by a college student and developed problems internally." However, there is another opinion I would like to discuss with Houdini. Here it is...

" WAS HOUDINI AN ESCAPE ARTIST, OR A MAGICIAN WHO DID SOME ESCAPES?"

My veiw is below. Also be sure to follow the rules...

 

[Dylan P.]

I think that Harry Houdini developed an interest in magic at a very young age and began to perform regularly. however, as time went on he began to find more interest in escapes because they posed a bigger challenge for him. In the end he wound up becoming a great escape artist (Who knew some tricks.)

My final Verdict: Escape Artist.

 

[Brad Henderson]

Are we just going to offer personal opinions or are people going to chime in with ideas informed by such writers as Silverman, Culliton, Kellock (in my copy inscribed by Hardeen he says the author got it "all wrong"), Rauscher, Steinmeyer, and the dozens of others who have actually researched and thought about this idea?

Also, are we passing judgment on the entire man's life work or a portion of time in his career?

And does it matter what he thought of himself? Culliton collected an extensive body of writing and statements made by Houdini about Houdini. While they are not historically accurate - Houdini was a myth maker - they do represent what Houdini wanted others to believe to be true about him.

Is Houdini's opinion more important than yours, mine, or any one else here?

Did Houdini find escapes more challenging or just more profitable? How did his shows in later years change? (The answer has nothing to do with either magic or escapes?)

Not trying to be snarky, I just don't know the "rules."

Brad

p.s. I don't think the cause of Houdini's death was ever a "mystery." Informed people always knew. People who only saw the movie may have been confused. Just for the record.

 

[Dylan P.]

Not trying to be snarky, I just don't know the "rules."

No.No. Your not being snarky at all. This is exactly what I want. i want people to say exactly what is on their mind and put it out there. This was very strong and a great read. i love when people challenge me with stuff like this. So thank you.

Oh. and the rules can be found here: http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=9323&highlight=weekly+debate

 

[praetoritevong]

Brad, I in no way pretend to have any historical knowledge of the facts. On one point however, I'd like to offer my thoughts:

"Is Houdini's opinion more important than yours, mine, or anyone else's here?"

No, I would not say that it is more important, per se. But, I do believe that it can tell us more about him than anyone else's perspective. They do represent something of what Houdini wanted us to think of him. But, read in light of his statements, both what he said and what he didn't say, read in light of their contrasts (Jacques Derrida's notion of Deconstruction) reveal more about the man than our statements can.

Hence his opinion is not more important per se, but perhaps more revealing.

 

[magicman384]

I thought i would shed some light on how he died:

houdini says he could take a punch from anyone.
he would constrict his stomach in a certain way so it would not hurt.
one person comes up asks if he can punch houdini in the stomach.
houdini was not feeling so good that day but he said okay.
but he wasn't able to constrict his stomach in time for the punch
hence the death.

by the way houdini became a escape artist later but was a magician earlier.

hoped i helped someone

 

[Flyspazz]

I have a wonderful book that goes over this and some history of great illusionists.
It's called Hiding the Elephant by Jim Steinmeyer. Its a very good read. Highly recommended.

 

[MichalAngelo]

A friend of mine sent me a message about this thread. Thought I'd add some insight here. I've studied the life and career of Houdini extensivley for for almost 15 years, and have been a collector of items associated with him.

It is true that the college student pretty much sucker-punched Houdini. His name was Whitehead, by the way. It is also true that he wasn't feeling well that day. In fact, he hadn't felt very good for several days prior to this day. He was in the early stages of acute appendicitis. The blow from Whitehead really didn't have that big of an effect on Houdini's health. He was punched in the stomach, and the appendix is much lower and on the right side of the body.

After several days in imense pain, Houdini agreed to see the doctor. The notified a doctor in Detroit that Houdini would be arrivng soon. Surgery was immediately performed and it was discovered that the appendix had burst and was becoming infected. Gangrene had set in, and there was really nothing else the doctors could do except keepo him comfortable and pain free. Three days later, Houdini passed away.


As for him being a magician or an escape artist, he started out as a parlour magician. He was somewhat dextrous with a deck of cards, but that's about as far as his talent went. In fact, after he married Bess, and they began touring the circuit, they almost starved to death because he couldn't get booked. He and Bess moved in with his mother and lived in the basement of her house. Since he obviously could not make it as a magician, he began to focus on his other talents with locks. He began doing escapes from cuffs, and as his popularity grew, his career did, too.


And on an off-note....The mention of stooges was brought up earlier. Houdini was notorious for using stooges. In fact, MOST of the challenges he received (from police agencies, and such) were all a set up. He ALWAYS had someone on the inside helping him. ALWAYS

 

[bcp on pcp]

Houdini was well known for his escapes for sure, but he prefered to be known as a magician. He even performed card tricks for other magicians and laypeople. He had a challenge that no magician could show him a card trick 3 times and still fool him (Vernon fooled him with his ambitious card after showing him it 7 times, but still). He wanted to be known as a magician who did escapes, but most people only knew him for his escapes.

 

[uhhh_kyle]

I believe he was a man who knew what people wanted to see. He knew card tricks at that time were not going to get him the recognition he craved. Escapes were scarry because it was someone risking their life. It shocked people and drew the crowds in. He knew what the public wanted to see.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Are we just going to offer personal opinions or are people going to chime in with ideas informed by such writers as Silverman, Culliton, Kellock (in my copy inscribed by Hardeen he says the author got it "all wrong"), Rauscher, Steinmeyer, and the dozens of others who have actually researched and thought about this idea?

Also, are we passing judgment on the entire man's life work or a portion of time in his career?

And does it matter what he thought of himself? Culliton collected an extensive body of writing and statements made by Houdini about Houdini. While they are not historically accurate - Houdini was a myth maker - they do represent what Houdini wanted others to believe to be true about him.

Is Houdini's opinion more important than yours, mine, or any one else here?

Did Houdini find escapes more challenging or just more profitable? How did his shows in later years change? (The answer has nothing to do with either magic or escapes?)

Not trying to be snarky, I just don't know the "rules."

Brad

p.s. I don't think the cause of Houdini's death was ever a "mystery." Informed people always knew. People who only saw the movie may have been confused. Just for the record.

Which movie, there've been a few.
One just came out, which is just awesome. Not sure how accurate it is, bit it's still worth watching.

 

[Brad Henderson]

I was referring to the Tony Curtis movie.

 

[adjones]

A friend of mine sent me a message about this thread. Thought I'd add some insight here. I've studied the life and career of Houdini extensivley for for almost 15 years, and have been a collector of items associated with him.

It is true that the college student pretty much sucker-punched Houdini. His name was Whitehead, by the way. It is also true that he wasn't feeling well that day. In fact, he hadn't felt very good for several days prior to this day. He was in the early stages of acute appendicitis. The blow from Whitehead really didn't have that big of an effect on Houdini's health. He was punched in the stomach, and the appendix is much lower and on the right side of the body.

After several days in imense pain, Houdini agreed to see the doctor. The notified a doctor in Detroit that Houdini would be arrivng soon. Surgery was immediately performed and it was discovered that the appendix had burst and was becoming infected. Gangrene had set in, and there was really nothing else the doctors could do except keepo him comfortable and pain free. Three days later, Houdini passed away.


As for him being a magician or an escape artist, he started out as a parlour magician. He was somewhat dextrous with a deck of cards, but that's about as far as his talent went. In fact, after he married Bess, and they began touring the circuit, they almost starved to death because he couldn't get booked. He and Bess moved in with his mother and lived in the basement of her house. Since he obviously could not make it as a magician, he began to focus on his other talents with locks. He began doing escapes from cuffs, and as his popularity grew, his career did, too.


And on an off-note....The mention of stooges was brought up earlier. Houdini was notorious for using stooges. In fact, MOST of the challenges he received (from police agencies, and such) were all a set up. He ALWAYS had someone on the inside helping him. ALWAYS

I knew you could provide some awesome insight. I didn't think that Houdini died fully because of the punch, but I didn't want to say thing without you or someone else well-knowledged on the subject confirming it first.

 

[Dylan P.]

Hey Guys. This is really great stuff. Obviously we have some very strong Houdini followers here. I am loving all the opinions and contraversy here. also, noone has broken a rule yet. Thanks!!! And keep it up.

Dylan P.