Thoughts on move monkeys

[UnknownMagician93]

alright so on the topic of move monkeys...


My friend Matt Richman were chatting yesterday and I said "Not to be rude but don't you find it kinda pointless to practice stuff you won't ever use?" (because atm he was practicing stuff he wouldnt use live).

He said in reply "i'll give you a quote from (famous magician, who i forget the name of)" the quote went something like "its all about building up your toolbag, because you never know when you might need what."

So my question is, what is your opinion of being a move monkey? for me, I will practice anything, but only if I am not currently practicing something i will definitely use. Example: I am currently studying Erdnase because I don't have any performance magic to practice atm. Not to say i won't EVENTUALLY perform gambling sleights, thats just a while off yet.

So, is it okay to practice EVERY move you come across(be a move monkey), or is it pointless and not worth a magicians time?

 

[RDChopper]

So, is it okay to practice EVERY move you come across(be a move monkey), or is it pointless and not worth a magicians time?

It's not like practicing EVERY move you come across everyday, I do consider myself a move monkey, and I practice them because I enjoy them just like I enjoy practicing flourishes.

Personally speaking, is gratifying when you see a hard move, you practice it and then you are able to get it to a decent level. Just like flourishes.

Again, personal opinion.

 

[krazykards]

it is good to learn a lot of moves, as that will get your own creative juices flowing. maybe you will find a small tweak that will make the move your own, and add something to it. Plus, in certain situations, some moves may look much better than others, so having multiple paths to the same end may help you give you a better performance.

also, as rdchopper said, learning a hard move and making it look good is satisfying, just like anything that requires practice to perfect.

 

[zatch]

I consider my self a move monkey. While I mostly get made fun of with magicians I hang around, I like it because every once in a while you get that spectator that knows a little bit of magic.

When that happens, you can pull out that ambitous riser move that you've been practicing for a year now so you can give that person a 'moment' to remember forever.

It's like practicing half court shots in basketball (provided you've been playing basketball long enough to be adequate at shooting). You'll probably never use the skill of sinking a half court shot, but there might be that one time you're down by one with two seconds to go and you're at half court. It's your time to shine.

So my opinion is yes, it is mostly pointless to practice moves you'll never use, BUT it makes it all worth it for that one moment of satisfaction.

Hope this helped

ZG

 

[MagicShadow9]

Yeah, i practice some of those really unperformable moves most of the time. This is mainly because i've already established and perfected all the tricks in my repertoire, so therefore there's not much performable magic left for me to practice. So i practice those moves just for the fun of it.

Of course i will occasionally run into tricks that are performable and suit my style, so i add them to my performing repertoire. However, it usually doesnt take long for me to master them. Because what i have found is that once you learn all the essential sleights, most of the performable tricks you run into will be VERY easy. It's just that the idea is different.

For example, I have dozens of tricks that rely on the double lift. Each of them are very practical to perform for real audience. Each of them conveys a totally different effect. Yet each of them are easy to learn because they only require a double lift (some require other moves, but they're still easy)

So because i no longer need to practice the performable tricks as much, i spend most of my practice time working on harder moves, just for my own entertainment (and to show off to other magicians every once in a while)

 

[sourboarder]

I won't call myself a move monkey but I wish I was. It's like the quote, you never know when you'll need it. Jam sessions online or face to face is a great time for move monkeys. I enjoy sleights that will take me months or years to practice to the point of performance because when I'm standing in line it's easy to just do an one handed pop out move by Aaron fisher, or when your waiting for a movie to start you perform other sleights. Just a thought, I see it as giving yourself something to do.

 

[praetoritevong]

I've never been and never will be a move monkey. I definitely accept the valid arguments proposed above. Quite simply, it may be enjoyable, and you never know when you'll find uses, that's all fair enough.

I want to throw something out there on a different note though, let me know what you think.

I've always held a certain disdain traditionally at least towards move monkeys, because I feel that the magic community in general these days is focussed too heavily on sleight of hand technique as the sole and most important criterion of judging someone's skill. If you can perform the anti-faro, you are obviously a fantastic magician, right?

Wrong!

When it's expressed in those terms, it sounds, rightfully so, ridiculous! And yet, it's the opinion a lot of magicians adhere to. Do I care what other magicians think? I shouldn't, but in all honesty, I probably do.

But the bigger issue here is that it means that magicians are focussing on the wrong thing - the wrong attitude towards studying magic. Any master of the art will tell you that sleight of hand is only the beginning of magic. But if everyone rates based on sleight of hand, then that's what magicians will study - magicians will study only the beginning, the most superficial, level of magic, to the detriment and neglect of other aspects.

That, and the logical extension of that argument, which is that, quite simply, technical skill is only the tip of the iceberg, is a very big issue that I have with the developing magical community at present - incorrect attitude, incorrect result.

You only need to look at the thousands of Queens videos on YouTube without presentation to see evidence of this trend.

This is not to say that all move monkeys do this, or even that many move monkeys do this. I know RDC to be a thoughtful magician, for example. I certainly don't mean it offensively towards anyone. But I do think that it's an issue, and I do think that this whole business contributes towards it in a significant manner.

 

[tokyoUW]

seriously? Who cares?

If a move-monkey is happy and enjoys it, that is his/her choice. If what you enjoy from the hobby is pracitcing and trying to master every move you come by, then great. If you enjoy performing, then great.

There is no right or wrong... everyone can do what they want and what they enjoy.

This thread is really pointless. Saying that practicing moves you will never use is wrong, is like telling someone they are enjoying their hobby the wrong way.

 

[UnknownMagician93]

seriously? Who cares?

If a move-monkey is happy and enjoys it, that is his/her choice. If what you enjoy from the hobby is pracitcing and trying to master every move you come by, then great. If you enjoy performing, then great.

There is no right or wrong... everyone can do what they want and what they enjoy.

This thread is really pointless. Saying that practicing moves you will never use is wrong, is like telling someone they are enjoying their hobby the wrong way.

No need to start flipping out, we are just having a discuss.


praetorightvong-

I agree with you. ATM I am trying to perfect all the sleights I already know, and then focus on my presentations. I only study Erdnase because I feel every serious magician should have a basic understanding of what it teaches us.

 

[joshrobarts]

WHOO WHOO HAHA! GIVE ME A BANANA!!! and a new multiple shift.


i want to learn as much as i can about everything magic related. Whether i practice something or simply know the method and can choose to practice it at a later date, knowledge is power in this business and in life. Think about people like ricky jay, that man is an encyclopedia, do you think he practices EVERYTHING he knows about? Hell no, but i guarentee he practices some of it and knows even more. NO ONE uses the S.W. Elevator, least not often, but many well established magicians practice it. sometimes a move is a skill check for a magician, or something to test us, remind us we aren't perfect and must continue to strive for more.

 

[RDChopper]

praetorightvong-

It's spelt Praetoritevong!

How dare you

 

[UnknownMagician93]

WHOO WHOO HAHA! GIVE ME A BANANA!!! and a new multiple shift.


i want to learn as much as i can about everything magic related. Whether i practice something or simply know the method and can choose to practice it at a later date, knowledge is power in this business and in life. Think about people like ricky jay, that man is an encyclopedia, do you think he practices EVERYTHING he knows about? Hell no, but i guarentee he practices some of it and knows even more. NO ONE uses the S.W. Elevator, least not often, but many well established magicians practice it. sometimes a move is a skill check for a magician, or something to test us, remind us we aren't perfect and must continue to strive for more.

I agree with your points 100%, but mysel being someone who ultimately wants a job performing and entertaining laymen (not magicians, because frankly I cant create stuff), my primary focus is to learn sleights I will use frequently in performance. Now, with that said, I've been trying for a few weeks to do an anti faro lol. but I do have some applications for it

And I agree with you 100000000000000000000000000000% about Ricky Jay.




PraetoRITEvong- IM SORRY!!!!! PLEASE SPARE ME

 

[Andy.Boss.Glass]

I agree with your points 100%, but mysel being someone who ultimately wants a job performing and entertaining laymen (not magicians, because frankly I cant create stuff), my primary focus is to learn sleights I will use frequently in performance. Now, with that said, I've been trying for a few weeks to do an anti faro lol. but I do have some applications for it

And I agree with you 100000000000000000000000000000% about Ricky Jay.




PraetoRITEvong- IM SORRY!!!!! PLEASE SPARE ME

dude the thing is, like no offense, but why is anyone going to listen to what you have to say? Your discussing pointless topics. Youve been in magic for probably a year at most, why not just listen and study instead of putting you two cents in everytime you get the chance. Once you get about 3 years in, then you will havea view worth discussing.

peace and all the best,

bossglass

 

[UnknownMagician93]

dude the thing is, like no offense, but why is anyone going to listen to what you have to say? Your discussing pointless topics. Youve been in magic for probably a year at most, why not just listen and study instead of putting you two cents in everytime you get the chance. Once you get about 3 years in, then you will havea view worth discussing.

peace and all the best,

bossglass

its just something I thought worthy of discussion. And hey, this stuff is supposed to be fun, so im gonna have fun doing it. Which means posting when I can

 

[jprace]

I was a "Move Monkey" once in Reel Magic Magazine and will be again in an upcoming issue.

But in real life, I certainly wouldn't consider myself a"move monkey." I try to keep my magic simple. One of my favorite controls is the Double Undercut; done on the offbeat it makes a great control. Honestly, if I had to choose between the Cascade Control, or even the Thumb Pass which I taught, I would still pick the classic Double Undercut.

Audience members do not know the method for controlling the card to the top. Only the magician does. So if I used the Thumb Pass they wouldn't be able to even tell the difference between the Double Undercut. So why would I want to make it harder on myself? They both accomplish the same thing and look similar.

Being ready for any situation does not mean "knowing a whole bunch of moves." I will only learn things I know I will use. I do not need 25 ways of controlling the card; two or three is enough for me. Once in a while I will replace a move with a newer, better one, but I would not need both in my performance.

A lot of the people who practice tons of moves only do these moves for themselves and not a real audience. If that's the way you enjoy your magic, great. I prefer to share my magic with others, as magic is a performing art. Art is not supposed to be confusing, but simple and beautiful.

 

[praetoritevong]

Guys, if someone really isn't at the level where what they are saying is even mildly coherent (jr?, anyone?), then that's fair enough. But if people are just relatively inexperienced, then talking through things can't really hurt - but if you feel someone's thinking is on the wrong path, then try and correct it and point it out - then they'll learn faster, rather than leaving them to not speak at all.

 

[TeeDee]

I think move-monkeyism is something to be encouraged. Learning moves you aren't going to use in real performance is, to me, an expression of joy in the craft of magic. I don't think magic should be all about "workers"...what's wrong with a few "players". Also, it seems to me that most of the magicians I respect and admire are/were move monkeys (Vernon, Marlo, Jennings...).

 

[D ICE R]

I am a little on the fence about this I love practicing moves and learning new ones. But I heavily practice only a few because everything I perform I want to look as perfect as possible.

 

[KeoSilver]

So praetoritevong are you saying, anyone who can type out a thought can do so freely, and not have a voice over someone else voice due to level of experience?

 

[praetoritevong]

Not in that sense.

Anyone who can type out a thought has the right to do so as long as it is not plainly offensive.

I'm more saying that the voices of experience in this case should seek to guide and correct the former, rather than purely criticise due to lack of knowledge.