What are we really asking? The subtext of magical questions.

[praetoritevong]

Hey guys,

I had a thought today (a surprise in itself), and it was prompted by Theory11's 1-on-1 Blind. As it stands I haven't really thought about it in much detail, I just wanted to put some thoughts out there. I'm not passing judgment, I don't have a strong opinion on this yet, but yeah. I touched briefly on this in one of my other posts, somewhere (yeah I know that's not very specific).

So Blind comes out, right. And over the next week, threads pop up. Threads with questions, questions like "Is the reset instant?" and "Is there a setup?" Other ones include "How long does it take to set up?" "Do I have to set this up each time?" With other releases, the questions are "Is the gimmick hard to make?"

These are the repeat questions, the ones that are always asked. Why? Well for starters I think the emphasis on totally impromptu effects is very great.

But as the title suggests - I wonder if the subtext isn't that we're just really lazy?

"How much work do I have to do to perform this?"

The internal monologue being: "Is the reaction worth the effort?"

I feel like people are essentially asking how un-lazy they have to be to do the effect.

Now, I know the questions asked are based in some sort of truth. Obviously, these are aspects of the effect that the performer should know. But - they're not the only aspects that the performer should know. Some other things that could be asked are - is the concept applicable to other effects? Is there a history behind the effect? Other versions of the effect? These are just as crucial.

So why are only some of the crucial questions asked about an effect - the same ones, over and over again? This leads me back to my theory about laziness. Now, I'm not saying that the people who asked those questions just want to be lazy. They weren't thinking "How little work can I get away with?", of course they weren't.

But that doesn't mean that laziness doesn't pervade magic, either. Just because we don't physically think it, doesn't mean it's not there. Obviously, laziness is not only bad for performance, but it's a bad ethic to have in a lot of life.

It hardly needs to be said, but you're always performing for your audience, to entertain them. Well, how far would you go to astonish them? Would you perform a set up each time you perform it? A lot of people are fond of saying that beautiful cliché, I perform to astonish my audience. Well, this is really the question, to what extent do you mean it?

What made you first think that "Wow, that trick is cool, I want to get it!"? That's what your audiences will see, and they won't care whether you've spend 5 minutes setting up or not. It's about them, we all love saying it, so this is the test of how much you really mean it.

Which is not to say that someone who rejects tricks with setups doesn't want to astonish an audience necessarily. But what I definitely do mean to say is that attitude means a lot, and I do honestly believe that some people are deluding themselves, and really are motivated by simply wanting, even subconsciously, to be lazy, to take the easy way out. Is this you?

I can understand someone who performs on the street asking these questions, amongst others. But then again, I also think more people should perform on the street in the first place. Regardless, I'd make the point again that these are only some of the crucial questions that should be asked - but why are these and not other crucial questions asked?

A lot of people will simply think to themselves that they agree. Some will post they agree. Some probably will completely disagree - after all, I'm close to calling a lot of people lazy, and people don't like that, so it's natural to respond by disagreeing. But regardless, I just want this to hopefully make you think a little about what you're really doing.

Some will absolutely ignore that last paragraph, to their detriment - but that's alright.

Overall this is really I guess just something to provoke thought about your work ethic, and about what's really going on below. I hope it makes some people think.

 

[Retype.SW]

I don't think these questions are asked because the person asking is too lazy to do a set up. I think people ask these questions because they want to link how much time they are putting into a set up and as a result, how much of a reaction they are getting out of it. Essentially, is the price worth the result?

In your example of Blind, these questions were asked a lot. But I think these were asked because if you already have to carry around 2 decks of cards to perform this, are they both going to have to be set up at all times? A lot of people would see this as being a pretty unpractical way of going about this for the acheived result. Also, these questions were probably being asked so they could figure out the method.

Blind is essentially a Do As I Do type effect, of which there are loads out there, some using only one deck and that are totally impomptu, so these questions might have been asked in regards to that. But anyway, enough about Blind..

I think what it boils down to is not how lazy people are, but like you said, is the reaction worth the effort? If you have to put in, say, 10 minutes of preperation for a quite bog standard effect, I can't see a lot of people performing this effect due to the unpracticality of it.

Another factor might be because they are purists. The effect looks great, but they wouldn't use it because it uses a set up, and they have a lot harder hitting impromptu effects that they use in various routines, where there just isn't space to put in an effect with a prep.

I also think these questions are asked because the technicality of an effect nowadays seems to be more important than the presentation. And no matter how much we bang on about presentation, people don't seem to listen.

Anyway, I probably haven't answered any questions, just thought I'd chuck an opinion out there

 

[praetoritevong]

I don't think these questions are asked because the person asking is too lazy to do a set up. I think people ask these questions because they want to link how much time they are putting into a set up and as a result, how much of a reaction they are getting out of it. Essentially, is the price worth the result?

In your example of Blind, these questions were asked a lot. But I think these were asked because if you already have to carry around 2 decks of cards to perform this, are they both going to have to be set up at all times? A lot of people would see this as being a pretty unpractical way of going about this for the acheived result. Also, these questions were probably being asked so they could figure out the method.

Blind is essentially a Do As I Do type effect, of which there are loads out there, some using only one deck and that are totally impomptu, so these questions might have been asked in regards to that. But anyway, enough about Blind..

I think what it boils down to is not how lazy people are, but like you said, is the reaction worth the effort? If you have to put in, say, 10 minutes of preperation for a quite bog standard effect, I can't see a lot of people performing this effect due to the unpracticality of it.

Another factor might be because they are purists. The effect looks great, but they wouldn't use it because it uses a set up, and they have a lot harder hitting impromptu effects that they use in various routines, where there just isn't space to put in an effect with a prep.

I also think these questions are asked because the technicality of an effect nowadays seems to be more important than the presentation. And no matter how much we bang on about presentation, people don't seem to listen.

Anyway, I probably haven't answered any questions, just thought I'd chuck an opinion out there

You bring up some interesting and legitimate points. I guess I just wanted to ask - you bring up price worth result. Couldn't you argue that this is actually just disguised laziness? It's, will I have to work for reactions or will the trick be easy to do? Asking about how much time they have to link into getting a result essentially treats the whole process of working on a trick as a chore. It's not about how to get results, it's, will what is provided give me results without work? I still think that it's a bigger factor than people might make out.

Whilst you definitely have a strong point about the impracticality of a 10 minute setup, I feel that too often, it's more about, can I be bothered. Ok, I'm giving a more cynical perspective of the magical fraternity, granted, but still. I just can't help thinking, but asking "Are they going to have to be set up all the time" as per your post screams at me, "How high of a maintenance am I going to have to do?" Some people legitimately wonder, "...because I'd like to do other effects, and I already have an opener". But I think most wonder "...Because I have to set it up everytime I perform it, and I can't be bothered" - the same people who never quite get around to performing anyway - or else perform to one person, and think their job done.

It's a legitimate question, to be sure. But then why are some legitimate questions not asked, in favour of, "Is it impromptu?" This in so many cases is the immediate and first question asked. Why is it the first question asked? Is it because it's the most important question that governs the success or lack thereof of an effect? I'd venture that it isn't. And yet, it's asked first. Why? A possible answer is because it's important to magicians - and of course, being me, I'd venture to say because we'd like to be lazy.

Nonetheless, your points are still very valid, and what you said is, irrespectively, true. Thanks for the post.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Ahhh,
I was looking at the threads and one pops up by who else but praetoritevong, and I knew I was in for a good, long read.
I got up, got some coffee, had a bathroom break and sat down for what I knew would be another great, well thought out piece of writing.

This was great
Thanks for this post, I hope plenty of people read it.
You brought up some good points, but remember that many people here are young, and are only interested in the methods and mechanics of a trick, not its background or what else they can learn from it. It's a little sad, but it's life.

You should write a book you know.
Or just publish every post you've ever done.

 

[Blaireau]

Brilliant stuff mate. Great insight into subtext.

I've actually just discovered some of my own laziness and lack of dedication. Earlier while practicing, I lost interest in what I was doing and went through the motions half-heartedly. I was thinking to myself jokingly, but with an underlying truth, "When can I get to the fun part? Where's the flashy things that's bound to impress?" And there is a lot, A LOT, of laziness there.

And not just laziness, but a mindset of having everything handed to you on a platter. Just because OOTW is a brilliant method doesn't mean that you do not have to work on your presentation and handling of it. I'm trying to think of an accurate way to put this. The end is not greater than the means. What I mean by this is that the end result is equal to the things that lead up to it.

Let's take the lottery, as an example. The majority of people that win these things, find themselves in much worse positions afterwards. They end up losing a lot of what they bought with that money, perhaps more. There is a lack of respect towards what they gained, because it came so easily. It may have been what they seemed to deserve (they've been through some hard stuff and they need the money), but that doesn't mean that they earned it (it literally came as a windfall and no work was put to it). Something that comes so easily will easily be taken away.

And just as a man cannot be smaller than his money, a magician cannot be smaller than his magic. Every part of your show is a reflection of who you are, and it will be noticeable where you have worked hard and where you have not. Anyone who trusts that just because so and so got great reactions from this effect they will too, is not thinking rationally. Judge and see for yourself.

Ack. Work ethic is really something rare to see nowadays.

Allow me to link up this old video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5jcGwjVKw When I came across this, the first thought t come to mind was "You're dissing Giobbi? Naw MANG! You can't do that!" The second thought that came to mind was, "Wasn't I just complaining about 'hard moves' myself earlier? What right do I have to criticise him?" I was essentially being just as stupid as this kid. And I'm supposed to know better.

I wasn't putting forth the effort necessary for the results that I wanted. You know what makes something valuable? How much someone is willing to pay for it. Simple as that. And at the moment, I wasn't willing to pay the price of practice to reach the level of proficiency that I wanted. I was a cheater, and a liar. Just like every other lottery player looking to win money, or every gambler looking to cheat their way to bank, or robber forcing others to deliver him gold, I was seeking unearned riches, undeserved wealth.

The Bucks learned everything from Erdnase when they were twelve. Do NOT complain that Card College is hard reading. Madison sat in his bathroom for a month sleeping with cards. Do NOT complain that practice is hard. Harris waited years for TA to come true. Do NOT complain about your bad day, or bad week, or bad month.

You have no excuse, ever. EVER.

After the above, I rethought my approach to practicing. If I'm not willing to put forth the effort, then I'm surely not deserving of the reward. Yes, you do have to fight the dragon if you're looking to rescue the girl.

That said, this is not to be taken as "I'm not as good as I thought I was so I'll just sit in my corner and mope in misery". That's another excuse, and it will only lead you to where you want it to--being not as good as you can be, and left only to wallow in misery.

NO!

One word.

LEVERAGE

Use this as your leverage, lads and lassies. Let it lift you up to the higher levels of the learning you have looked for. Use the fury from your past impotence as the fuel for your newfound insurrection. You were weak, you ARE able. You were stupid, you ARE informed. Now the choice is up to you.

So no more laziness, m'kay?

Rise up to the challenge. Or get away from the plate.


Bless,
--Badger

 

[praetoritevong]

Holy ****. Awesome post man. Re-reading my own post, I felt rather clumsy in how I expressed things. But that, was awesome. Keep up the good work in your practice regime too, kudos for doing that man. Great post, great points.

 

[Retype.SW]

You bring up some interesting and legitimate points. I guess I just wanted to ask - you bring up price worth result. Couldn't you argue that this is actually just disguised laziness? It's, will I have to work for reactions or will the trick be easy to do? Asking about how much time they have to link into getting a result essentially treats the whole process of working on a trick as a chore. It's not about how to get results, it's, will what is provided give me results without work? I still think that it's a bigger factor than people might make out.

Whilst you definitely have a strong point about the impracticality of a 10 minute setup, I feel that too often, it's more about, can I be bothered. Ok, I'm giving a more cynical perspective of the magical fraternity, granted, but still. I just can't help thinking, but asking "Are they going to have to be set up all the time" as per your post screams at me, "How high of a maintenance am I going to have to do?" Some people legitimately wonder, "...because I'd like to do other effects, and I already have an opener". But I think most wonder "...Because I have to set it up everytime I perform it, and I can't be bothered" - the same people who never quite get around to performing anyway - or else perform to one person, and think their job done.

It's a legitimate question, to be sure. But then why are some legitimate questions not asked, in favour of, "Is it impromptu?" This in so many cases is the immediate and first question asked. Why is it the first question asked? Is it because it's the most important question that governs the success or lack thereof of an effect? I'd venture that it isn't. And yet, it's asked first. Why? A possible answer is because it's important to magicians - and of course, being me, I'd venture to say because we'd like to be lazy.

Nonetheless, your points are still very valid, and what you said is, irrespectively, true. Thanks for the post.

Good points you make there. Some people may see it as being lazy, some people think the pay-off is not worth it.

Let me give you an example. I just bought a new car, and to put it bluntly, it was expensive. I had people telling me there is no point spending that much on a car when you can get one for less and what not, but to me, it was worth it. To others, it was not worth it.

Now, look at this in a magical sense. To some, a certain amount of set up may be worth the effect. To others, the same amount of set up may not be worth the effect. No one can and no one should be able to dictate wether a certain amount of set up is worth it to another person because, I'm afraid, everybody is different.

This does not mean the people who do not want to to have a lengthy set up are lazy. Just like the people who are not willing to spend the amount I did on a car are stingy. It comes down to the individual and how they feel about it.

I think people have their own reasons for what they do, and wether they want to share that with other people is up to them. But yeah, I don't know where this is going

I'm off to clear the snow off my car...

EDIT: Great post Blaireau. I think he clears it up nicely

 

[kevinL]

Brilliant stuff mate. Great insight into subtext.



Ack. Work ethic is really something rare to see nowadays.

Allow me to link up this old video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k5jcGwjVKw r

Hahaha, that is probably one of my favourite youtube vids ever

 

[visualartist]

I can honestly say that im fully prepared to do whatever I can,technically,to pull off an effect that
I want to do.
If someone really wants to perform magic then being lazy shouldnt be in their dictionary.
If one wants practically self-working tricks then he isnt really into magic.Or magic isnt really in him/her.(Mysterious Stranger book reference.woot woot!)

 

[jonraiker]

Definitely one of my favorite threads, to date. Way to provoke some intelligent discussion praetoritevong!

 

[Steerpike]

Is there any greater aspiration in the human mind than to be rewarded for nothing? Among artists, no.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Is there any greater aspiration in the human mind than to be rewarded for nothing? Among artists, no.

I thought we weren't artists

 

[Dima]

Great thread. I believe John Bannon calls this the Pain to Glory ratio.

 

[praetoritevong]

Oh yeah? That's awesome. Might I ask where he speaks of this?

 

[Dima]

Oh yeah? That's awesome. Might I ask where he speaks of this?

Dear Mr Fantasy by John Bannon.

 

[Avatar]

Very true, and I admit to being lazy in my magic when I first started. I got into all sorts of gimmicks that I never use anymore.

When the questions come up I really do contribute a majority of it to laziness, most likely because people don't want to come up with ways to end clean or don't feel like exploring different possibilities with the effects. I personally use about 10 percent of the effects the way they are explained or performed to me, I just feel that so many variations and concepts could be used.

I know that there are still many out there that love to do the same as me. When I ask questions it deals with a table hopping scenario, if I find it a major hassle to clean up and have another effect ready then I most likely to pass it up. To be honest the question about making a gimmick has very little excuse, if you are a magician you are more than likely very skilled in your hands and have some ability to make gimmicks. TNR was slightly difficult but in the end you had a very unique torn and restored effect although there are better ones.

There was another thread made about making a gimmick about a Drama play and many great suggestions were made then at the end of one of the pages he asked for something simple because he was lazy and the suggestions stopped.

So before any questions are asked in the reviews make sure you are asking for the right reasons. Also I am very glad that this thread was created because maybe some will reflect on this.