How do you Present 'Magic'?

[Sinful07]

Ive recently performed again to audiences in my college. i was using gaffs today, so no shuffling for hecklers.


i messed up badly in a few tricks, particularly in an ACR routine, where i planted two 'X' cards on top of one card and i forgot that i planted two- which meant a triple lift would be the move or getting rid of the top card- then a double lift would suffice.

(i did an acr routine with a queen of hearts. btw)

Needless to say, i did a double lift to show an 'X' card. which i genuinely thought would be their card. it wasnt. i covered it up by saying "if we shake the card a bit, it'll actually change into another card." and pulled the top card out. (which turned out to be the queen of Diamonds) which wasnt their card either.

because the card is the third from the deck remember.


This is where i get lucky, while my audiences were screaming saying "oh my god you flopped, you're a wash out, get outta here!"

i quickly glanced at the first three cards, to make sure that the queen of hearts was somewhere on the top of the deck and i could produce it somehow, whether a palm, card to pocket.. whatever..


since it was third from top, and they stopped screaming out saying "it wasnt the diamonds, it was the hearts, hahaha you flopped!"

I executed a double lift and placed the Queen of diamonds on top, and executed a shake-change. (From Jay noblezada's colour change Dvd)

I said: "i know i flopped, but listen, you really dont believe its magic do you. if you believe in something, it will actually.. happen."


The crowd went Mental. and i instantly regained control again.

As you can see, i was setting a theme of sleight of hand there, since the card seems to immediately jump back on top almost everytime- and it seems that i made a mistake twice in a row. which meant that my 'sleights' got messed up.

My question to you Theory 11 members, is how do you approach magic? Do you present it as 'Sleight of hand' or just plain 'Magical' ?

 

[beneaththeabove]

A mixture of both

Interesting, i have had numerous occasions where i had to think on my feet and perform a double instead of a single, etc. i thought i was the only one lol...

i present it as a form of entertainment to my friends, most of them know i perform magic and will ask to see it when they are bored....i suppose they know its sleight of hand after they walk away, but during the performance they react as if it is real magic! ( I put on the act as if i have no idea what is going on...so i'm on the same wavelength as them, instead of acting clever) lol.....


a the end of the day: I leave it up to my spectators to decide...

 

[filth0013]

i dont really care to present it in a specific way. i dont make it look like a gambling presentation where it looks like its all skill. but i dont make a big deal about the magic( i dont wave my hands over the deck for 5 minutes or anything like that). i just make myself seem like a normal guy that can do some wierd stuff somehow, lol. the spec can decide. you never know.

 

[StevenLevitt]

I am aiming towards the magical side of my effects, I am learning to make people believe in what I do.

 

[Sinful07]

That's intresting. what are your usual replies when people ask you how its done?

i usually say 'Hogwarts'. or 'I dont know. things just.. seem to happen. its weird.'

Sometimes i get the really eager spectators though that really wants to know- so i tell them straight up. Books and Dvd's.

 

[Zeedub81]

( I put on the act as if i have no idea what is going on...so i'm on the same wavelength as them, instead of acting clever) lol....

Sometimes I act like I'm making the trick up off the top of my head to heighten the "man this dude has got like powers" factor.

 

[TeeDee]

With card and coin magic, everyone knows it's either sleight-of-hand or some form of gimmickry. There's no getting away from that. However, the key to making your audience experience real magic is to make the moves merely incidental to the tricks, and the tricks merely incidental to a narrative. They know they're being tricked but that doesn't matter, any more than the fact that you know that actor on the stage isn't really Hamlet.

I don't mean every effect has to be a "Sam the Bellhop"-style story trick, the story is usually some small piece of theatre in which both you and your spectators have roles. Maybe that scene is a tale of a poker player, played by a spectator, who witnesses a master card cheat, played by you, again and again impossibly deal winning hands from a shuffled deck, and thus learns to approach his game in a more sober and less cavalier way.

 

[ninja]

i just go with the flow i just start preforming normally and kind of study the audience to see which would better suite them.

 

[Morgan B]

Sinful07 – that was painful to read, honestly. I love how people talk about bombing so casually now...like, yeah, I flashed and they boo’d me...awesome, and the population of those wanting to see a trick diminishes that much more. Don’t worry – I recovered by doing what I said – finding their card.

Before I talk about “magic vs sleight of hand”, I will say, what you are performing may be the issue. I have spoken on this a number of times, getting people to WANT to be fooled and building a reason. What you “said” to recover sounded like...and I can’t believe I am using this term...”mouth garbage”. It made NO sense, and it was you stumbling on giving something meaning, that didn’t have any meaning to begin with. As I will deal with the magic/sleight of hand concept in a second – but the worst thing to do is to slap the spectator for believing one way – “You didn’t think it was real magic” and your out was a visual effect. You feel like you recovered because everyone “freaked” out, but a reaction isn’t the only indicator of your success - this is false. You found their card, but they didn’t experience magic – they experience a successful trick. Keep reading...the rest may help you. (PM me if you have any questions)

To answer your question – I have heard it from both sides. Guys like Johnny Ace Palmer and Jami Ian Swiss both will tell their audiences that they use sleight of hand...I have heard few say they have “real” magic powers – but Uri Geller made a career out of stating he had real powers...he took heat for it though. Personally, I don’t claim it’s real – but I don’t; want to remind them it’s not either. Like a movie, I go to the movies knowing it’s not real, but feel emotion and a connection – we have the ability to communicate two ways, unlike movies – so the experience should be better! Therefore, when I do magic, I let THEM come to terms with what they see – and they realize it doesn’t MATTER if it’s real or fake – it’s an amazing experience. When asked if it’s real magic, I say – yes, but not Peter Pan Disney magic – its magic in the sense of adult imagination. Because magic is real, we are doing it – but it’s not “real” magic...but then again, Hobbits aren’t real either, but Lord of the Rings was a cool flick!

Ammar really put this into terms for me, when I heard him talk. He said, and I paraphrase - To be remembered (enough to be rebooked and be considered great) you either have to display incredible skills...not just skill...INCREDIBLE skill...or you have to do something that is BEYOND skill...that skill doesn’t come to mind with what they witnesses. Which he said ran into Vernon’s – to be remembered do one thing better than ANYONE...so when people talk about it – they say, but have you seen “Your name here” do it?

I have seen many guys go the “skill” route – but as they get older, it’s harder – Vernon performed natural magic late into his life...and I won’t mention the opposite of that to hurt anyone’s feelings, but sometimes focusing on skill can shorten your career. Also, if we call ourselves magicians – and the goal is magic – magic should just happen...it shouldn’t look like flourishes and visual sleights. As seeing the “move”, and believe me...you don’t have to flash to see a move...example, PASSES ARE NOT INVISIBLE! Therefore, seeing a move or being reminded its not magic is like watching a movie and having the boom lower into the shot...or as simple as the movie theatre screen sound being off from the actual lip movement. It reminds you that it is just fantasy, and the fantasy is easily broken.


Therefore, when I do magic – I think it’s insulting to people for me to say – “I have real magic powers” and it’s why I am working table side at this restaurant?? But it’s also insulting to take the fantasy away from them and say – it’s not magic...UNLESS, you are so good that you can tell them it’s sleight of hand...and they don’t believe you, like Palmer and other greats like him get all the time.

For magic to be art, one must not try to make people see it as one way, we must allow them to see it the way they want – like music and lyrics...we often can hear the same song and get something different out of it. This is art – however, we are a living art, and the guides for the experience, but we should not interfere with the audience’s perception, just help them come along for the journey...whatever it may be for them. ..but at ALL times they should see MAGIC.

 

[Sinful07]

Great post man, I totally see where you're coming from. That's a very good explanation, and has enlightened me more towards how i should perceive my magic- and how i present it according to my style.

With regards to my performance, I admit i lack skill, i lack patter. i lack everything. i by no means am not a proffessional. i LEARN by making mistakes, mistakes like today.

I dont Devour Material, then perform it. I Devour One piece of material, Perform it countless times while im walking,standing or generally talking (i just tell them to ignore the cards) and after a few months, when im confident with the trick, i perform it to spectators.

I Flash. People catch me out. Its not a big deal. They're not paying me to see magic. It's a different story if they paid me.

And besides, As a hobbyist, i dont think im doing pretty bad. =]


Edit: i know after this post, i'll get a lot of people say "Practice, practice, Practice." Cheers, But i constantly AM practicing. performing for College people is practice. Im young, and by the time im old enough to hit Bars, i'd probably be at least half decent. Im happy with the way im learning. I constantly Drop cards, and on the odd occassion my tricks backfire. It doesnt really matter if i make a mistake, for me its always the recovery that matters.

 

[spades]

That was a very good read Morgician, some excellent points. I love and 100% agree with this...

Therefore, when I do magic, I let THEM come to terms with what they see – and they realize it doesn’t MATTER if it’s real or fake – it’s an amazing experience.

Exactly. It's an amzing experience, they can see and believe what they want.

When I do 'magic' I just do it. I don't have elaborate patter, however I dont follow the idea that it's 'mouthgarbage'. I just do a trick to someone my own way to try and amaze them. People often say 'How'd you do that?' in a suprised, happy, amazed voice, we all get that. There not thinking at that point was it magic or what? They have seen something amazing and that is where the focus is, often when looking back they'll think "it was cool and I enjoyed that". Let people wonder and feel what they think, to me I think it is something incredible and beautiful and how it was done is not really the point to a spectator, rather the effect it had.
When people look back and wonder how it was done they are unlikely to think 'magic'. However this does not make the moments any less magical.

Sorry been awake for ages so I hope this makes sense and I got my point across in that... Ramble.

-S♠

 

[Dima]

That's intresting. what are your usual replies when people ask you how its done?

"How did you do that?!!"

Pretty well i thought...

PS. Great post Morgician

 

[Morgan B]

Thank you guys for the support, glad you got something out of it - hope it helps Sinful07 too.

To clarify, I do believe magic should be "presented" or communicated for a better word - magic that has an emotional hook and logical reason for occuring, makes magic stronger. I think words like...look the card is now on top because it is ambitious...or what Sinful07 said, that kind of stuff isn't a presentation, it's sound...filler...mouthgarbage! However, if you can communicate a message of why the magic happens that is logical for that effect, or has meaning to something greater, and the magic acts as an analogy, then you are on the right track presentationally.

IN NO WAY do I want you to think you should not give magic a message, other than illogical and non-sense talk that has no meaning other than to try and cover your pass.

 

[WilliamMckeehan]

Just let them think what they want, that sounds good to me. When i am asked "how did you do that?." I say something like "you just have to give it a little wave, snap, shake," or whatever move i did to make the magic happen. Its a VERY fun and amazing art.

Just one more thing i want to say is i think people put to much thought into magic, just try to do it the best u can. its all in fun.

 

[Morgan B]

I just realized Sinful07 did respond, and I am glad I helped...one thing though.

"I Flash. People catch me out. It’s not a big deal. They're not paying me to see magic. It's a different story if they paid me."

When I started magic, I was just going into college - so I went back to my old High School and busted out new stuff on them....however, new stuff was things I worked on for weeks until 3 am, and showed one trusted friend or my Mother - THEN...and ONLY then would I go out and show those people, as I was prepared.

When I got caught...I was PISSED...I didn't want ANYONE to catch me, as I might as well of taught it to them. Don't take it so cavalier man - I bet Labron James knows he is going to miss big shots - but he doesn't take it easy when he does. Jordan used to say, "Practice how you play", just because money is not involved, doesn't mean magic malpractice is okay. You should be harder on yourself, and I am embarrassed for you that it has to come from an outside source.

I was like you too man - but the difference and why I am successful in every town I live may be the fact that I know I am only as good as my last performance - you need to work WAY harder on your magic by yourself, before you show it - if you are making mistakes in public...you haven't worked on it enough.

Paul Harris talks about practice...he writes something along the lines of, "Magic practice is like enjoying honey - but only being able to lick it off a razor blade - it sucks to cut your tongue...but how much do you like honey"? Is it worth the sacrifice of thousands of hours of work...for a few minutes of fame? Do you get it? Many hours of practice for one trick! Think of it this way – you wouldn’t try to place a piece of music you hadn’t perfected...the timing, the melody, the proper notes...nobody would want to listen...right? Well, you are doing the same thing with your magic – don’t just practice...rehearse it, think about it – work on one effect until you OWN it – then go show it...show it a thousand times flawlessly...show it until you are sick of it...but learn while you are doing it those thousand times, keep improving on it...the wording, the handling, whatever...just keep thinking.

I understand you are new, but the path you are setting for yourself may be an empty one. Set the bar a bit higher with your standards of deception. People are going to want to see your magic...but make them wait until you are ready to show it...you will see the difference, I promise. PRESTIGE MAN...PRESTIGE!

PS - As for the guy posted above me...William, the only thing he got right was the Oath - kudos for that - I apprecaite your support, but you got me wrong - as your words and imput advocates for "mouth garbage", as you says things to "how did you do that" that may appear condesending, do you really want people to believe it's just a snap? Also, your opinion about magicians thinking too much - Vernon said that magicians stop thinking too soon...what category do you fall under? Please William, your opinion is really that of the problem, not the solution. Saying people put too much thought into magic (what we want to be an art), is like saying people put too much thought into music...I wish they would just bang things together randomly - it wouldn't make a difference. Philistine !

 

[RikAllen]

Hmmm.
Interesting read-all of the posts.

When asked how to do a trick I answer the same way as if asked how to spell a difficult word-Very carefully.

Being asked how something is done is probably the biggest compliment to your skill, if someone is unimpressed with a trick, they don't want to know how it's done.
On the other hand-if you completely fool them they'll ask you how it was done, sadly, there are no good responses.

Saying it's magic is both true and false, as magic from a magicians point of view is a series of sleights, misdirection and timing, along with all the other aspects of our art, to create an experience. But to laymen, to say 'magic' is the same as 'supernatural powers'.

Saying it's sleight of hand ruins the impossibility of the effect.

I would like to hear peoples reasoning for why their magic works-because from a psychological point of view, no answer seems to explain it well enough to still let the spectator decide what just happened.
-or maybe this is just me-

And Morgician, you've come down hard on Sinful (justifiably? maybe.) but he is a hobbyist, who has a different viewpoint. I understand where you're coming from (and will PM you what was originally typed here).

To Sinful-good story, glad you could somewhat recover, make it look like you knew what was going on to some extent. I just hoped you learned the right lesson from it.
What you should have gotten out of it is that you should always be ahead of your spectators, but never get ahead of yourself (forgetting the triple lift-since a double lift would have been next, you just skipped a phase).
Anyway-Thanks for sharing.

-Rik

 

[Shakutau]

For magic to be art, one must not try to make people see it as one way, we must allow them to see it the way they want – like music and lyrics...we often can hear the same song and get something different out of it. This is art – however, we are a living art, and the guides for the experience, but we should not interfere with the audience’s perception, just help them come along for the journey...whatever it may be for them. ..but at ALL times they should see MAGIC.

Hey there Morg. I really liked the last paragraph. You know. If you could, you should write more to help out noobs like myself. Anyhow.

Yo Sinful! Your post reminded me of me, and the friend i constantly practice with in card magic. When we both started, he practiced on i remember the Tilt, and double lift, and then we would head out, when we know we can at least do a decent double lift, to perform for real people. We were kids then, and i remember the first times we went out to perform for real people. It was hard. We flop big time, and then we just get scared, and never speak of performing outside ever again. Then we decided to perform in Secondary School as time went, we would perform and get crowded by kids, we would flop, but not as much as we used to, we learnt a few tricks up our sleeves and used them all the time. Until one moment we had to each find our own tricks to do, because people used to compare the two of us, who did what tricks better. My friend would get pissed. Gradually i found my card handling, audience reliance, confidence to improve; we would still perform, month after month, and stuff. But my friend would get nervous, he still gets nervous, a lot as well, even now, he would fumble, he would speak too fast, he would rush to finish the trick, he found out his problem was mentality, so he improved and conquered it. But his card handling needs work, double lift get ready is DANGEROUS, the dude literally, with spectators looking at his hands, would spread over two cards, with both hands and retain break, but somehow, the spectators would still be fooled. but that doesnt stop him from performing. He knows his sleights need work, the dude makes up his own sleights, that look sloppy, but it fooled me, and we have been pracitcing together, performing together for nearly 2 and a half years. We started when we were 16.

What im trying to say his, mentality is what i learnt. But that was all side story, i just wanted to tell you.

The way i used to perform magic, was what all new performers do, copy exact patter, timing, construction, putting aside the different combinations of audiences, spectators and atmosphere, i would jus stick to one thing rock solid. Been doing for two years. I found that people are too logical to believe in magic, that you must try hard to make them believe, i found that i was pushing it, i was forcing them, like Morg said, slapping them one way, when they indulge on one before hand. Thats wrong, i feel shameful for thinking i was performing magic, when all this time i was challenging the spectator. Or bullying.

I did a lot of 3oul searching. And read a lot of topics. Evaluated myself, and noticed one thing. I made a joke out of my performing. No wonder my family never took me seriously when i pulled out a deck of cards. I was doing magical gestures, saying silly patter, whether performing for old or young, if they accepted to watch, they in the end would only see it as "hey this kid wanted to show us something, lets not break his heart and give him a chance" kinda thing. Because i would ask the spectators after i perform, "what do you think?", they would say "pretty cool, show me how its done", see the disrespect? Yeah this disrespect was caused by me in the first place. My style, performance, everything was wrong. Excluding those times i perform for people on my age level, or under. But when performing for people above my age level (which is 80% of the time), they dont experience magic. Just childplay. Foolishness.

I concluded, i vow to reform. I found out my problems was not my sleights, but my person. I havent been expressing myself. People applaud my "fast hands", but not Shakutau. Then it comes back to the question. Who am i? I found that magical gestures have been making me look stupid infront of my spectators - but i love magical gestures, like in the UltraGaff when Daniel was doing the Facede performance. But i found that i cant use them, no matter how much i want to. So i conclude i wont, and will be avoiding any form of magical gesture, as much as i can. The clothes i wear adding to magical gestures, dont match. Think about it. Thats one problem from myself.

Spectators are mature. I was performing, one last time, with magical gestures, not too long ago, two weeks? For a group of teens, all i ever got out of it was "Yeah...". I even performed my Mont Ka. Ego change. Slow too. No matter how beautiful i performed the change, the person wasnt the least sparked up. It was me. That was the last time i decide to perform with someone else's style. They are magical, not me. I cant force myself to be magic. So what then?

My style of performing is based on "Playfulness". Within the modern society, where everyone is following set routines, following a biased perspective of life, where everyone is forced, and have forced themselves to forget their playful side, becomming this moody, serious, mature, down to earth, person. I dont like that. Thats not how i grew, thats not what i tend to become. Anime movies like Tekkon Kinkreet opened me up, you CAN be playful where ever you go. Performing magic is like that.

You must know, with card magic, we can bring back the pure, innocent side of ANY person. We are Samurais. We have people to save. This is our playground, but people dont play. They are too caught up with boundaries over boundaries.

I know people dont believe in magic, i tried forcing this on them for two years. I know damn right. So i take a different approach. "Wanna try a game?". My theory is this. By introducing them to a "game", they let me through those gates of Magic, they trust me and are willing to accept the things i will show them. This could go two ways those. If one i fail to give them a good performance, for example my sleights mess up, my whole performance lacked emotion, experience, or if just didnt work well at all, the spectator will forgive me. "Hey. Whu said i was doing magic anyhow?". If they did like the "game", they are hooked, on many reasons. One they know what i showed them has been introduced as logical, so the level of honesty is high, but somehow, what they saw was "beyond that...but it was logical...but wait...a card just...changed...i managed to cause a card to be erased in my mind visually expressed with the cards in my hand...my own eyes". I hope you dig. Its not trying to confuse spectators.

I believe magic is inconceivable. That it cannot be explained properly through words or even emotion. When i perform, i work hard to avoid useless words that sets the experience, if few more words being less spoken will have an impact on the experience of the Spectator then...why not give it a try?

No magical gestures, no silly unbelieve explanations btw. I only tend to tell people magical things when i get them hooked on playfulness. Afterall, it could be more than a "game", see if you can experience it.

 

[Morgan B]

I hope to have a book out eventually...half essays to make you think, and then some effects that I have revised and created over the years. It's a slow process, but I hope it is received well. For now, please feel free to PM me with any questions - as I would love to guide more of the misguided or unsure that are new or old to magic. Thanks.

I loved this line, "We are Samurais. We have people to save." it may be true.

Here is what else I loved - you wrote out your journey of learning what works and what doesn't - this will overlap with some, but the point is - you took personal accountablity for flops and tried to make changes to better it. True artist...the makings of a great Samurais.

You will continue to grow and learn - as we all should - to see what needs to be changed to make it better. In my "How would you PRESENT this" exercise post - Sean Raf mentioned that not all perform the same as it's not the goal - but in a way, it is the goal - as we do have the same goal...but can do it differently. Tamariz, Fred Kaps and Ascanio...all did magic differently...but they all made it look moveless. I digress.

I went through a period where I wanted people to believe so badly...then respect it as much as I did...then after a long talk with Fisher...realized, if I backed off...they would come to me. I just had to do my job and make it easy for them to want to take that journey - this comes with a combination of personality, strong method, interesting plots - this is why we think and dicuss magic - eventually, you will find what strong technique is....and then you will say..great...but now how much humour do I add...what if I changed the timing, the logic of the presentation...and this is why magic is a gift that will continue to give to you, if you continue to give to it.

THIS is why I came down hard on Sinful07, so he doesn't lose out on this gift because of his youth and nube status - but I am not mad at him...minus my feelings on holding yourself more accountable for errors - I just want him, all of us, to appreciate what magic is...it's a gift. I have done things and met people I never would have without magic - as "unreal" as magic is...it's real man - like Goshman said, "you are the magic" and I understand the meaning of this more as I get older in magic.

 

[Sinful07]

For me, There is an 'Art' in magic. and that's not in performing it, but its the innate ability to take your spectator to a world where everything is possible. Limitless.

Someone mentioned this before- Yes, i am a complete Hobbyist. Ive also mentioned this before in a previous thread: Im PuA Firsthand, and a Magician Second. Frankly i dont even call myself a magician. People call me that, though i refuse my title.


In the PuA Realm (Picking up girls) There is a set way of doing things in order to Get the number, Kiss her or F-close. its like patter, to get a certain effect, you must use different patter.

Magic is known as a DhV, a Demonstration of Higher Value. When i 'sarge' (which is the term for picking up chicks)

The whole point of my performance is to show higher value towards the girl which inevitable increases attraction. Think of 'magic' in terms of picking up girls as a flourish. its a sense of 'proffessionalism'. Like i know what im doing sort of thing.

How is this relevant? Well frankly it just shows how much of perfecting the ‘art’ concerns me. I learned Magic to Entertain, To express myself. It is a way of eliciting social values which can be elicited through means of ‘showing off’ whether it was dancing, Sports or any type of physical evidence in order to create interest. This is MY way.


I did not learn magic in order to ‘appreciate the art’. In the same context as a number of Art students took art in school for the purpose of finding out how Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa. People took art in order to express themselves Through a variety of materials and methods such as painting and using Stencils.


Frankly, I appreciate what you are doing Morgician, but there is no way in Hell you are going to change my Business-orientated point of view in order to chase Magic as an Art. What you’re basically implying is for me to take it More seriously, in a sense that I should be FLAWLESS whenever I perform. By all means, you can continue preaching that way, but it will never happen. I took Magic as a Hobby, not a profession. There is a Major Difference.

I appreciated your input beforehand, But quite frankly, assuming that I dont actually appreciate the ‘Art’ in itself is quite offensive. I enjoy watching Artists and their effects. Did it seem like every time I do an effect I revealed the trick in order to disrespect these artists?

Pardon, But you seem to be going beyond the line here. Your point has been Proven, and I have politely introduced you to my rebuttal. I am in Magic as a Hobby, So please save your Breath with the preaching.

-Sinful

 

[Shakutau]

I hope to have a book out eventually...half essays to make you think, and then some effects that I have revised and created over the years. It's a slow process, but I hope it is received well. For now, please feel free to PM me with any questions - as I would love to guide more of the misguided or unsure that are new or old to magic. Thanks.

Looking forward to reading more of your posts in the future! Thanks for the praisal!

http://artgerm.deviantart.com/art/Samurai-Spirit-6-77998563