Why I don't perform card to wallet anymore.

[RDChopper]

So hi! its been a while since I posted something, anyway, I wanted to share something ( I mean trying to figure it out) with you. Here you go.

Like about 6 months ago I went to a college party, and everyone was talking dancing, drinking whatev, anyway, time past and we were talking and then a girl (wich had seen me do magic before) told them that I was a magician,anyway, they asked me to "do something".

So I started, but before that, I placed a card in a guy wallet saying that it was a gift for later on, anyway, I performed for about 10 min and I finished with card to wallet (I know a lot of you guys know how to do this) the thing is, EVERYONE freaked out, very very much, And I was happy about it .

The interesting thing was how they talked about that trick, a friend told me that most of them were like " He took the card, vanished it, and it materialised in the wallet!".

And that was the last time I perfomed that trick, I have become a little obsessed this days trying to figure it out and studying the "why's" of why the people think the way they think regarding magic, I have discovered a lot of very good concepts, but the thing that I cant put my finger on is how the heck did I managed to make them believe that the wallet was empty, even when they saw that I put a card there.

Anyway, the word spread out and everytime I go to a party always somebody comes up and says "hey do the trick where you appear the card in his pocket!" (looked how the trick has changed?) anyway, I end up doing a card to pocket routine or things like that but I have never ever performed card to wallet since that time.

The most common answer would be "its easy, they forgot that a card was there", but, wouldnt be pretty good for us to find out a way to psycological convince them that the wallet is empty?

I hope that we all toguether can come up with a answer to that .

 

[Andy.Boss.Glass]

honestly, if you them to believe that, all you do is tell them that. Really, that is how easy psychology works. If you want proof, there was a study back in the 70s (i think) in which there were two people being experimented on, and one experimenter. One person was the teacher, and the other was the student. The student was actually an actor. The teacher would ask the student a series of questions, and for each question answered correctly, nothing would happen. But if the student got the question wrong, they would adminster a shock that would increase each time they got a question wrong. The shocks went up to 450 volts, which was clearly labelled as enough to kill a human being. The teachers (normal people) were only told, simply told, that they had to adminster the life threatening shock. 80% of the teachers administered this final shock when simply told to. Thats all. Just told to. The power of suggestion, right? Thats all. So, how does this relate? Well, if you can tell a human to give a death shock and they will, you can also convice them of an empty wallet with words.

 

[MagicShadow9]

If you really wnna know the answer i suggest you study some psychology books.

Wayne Houchin talked about this on Art of Magic. He said that once he performed Thread and a needle swallowing routine. Afterwards, people were asking him how he did "the trick where you pulled a thread of needles from your eye"

All i can tell you is that people tend to only remember parts of the trick that appeals to them. Then their minds tend to fuse those parts of trick together making a whole different trick.

But if i were you, i would use this to my advantage. Manipulating the audiences' sense of the effect is a very valuable skill. For example, at the end of all my tricks that involves a slected card, i always say some thing like "Look, the card you were only thinking of, jumps to my pocket". The key words are "only thinking of" because this makes them forget about the fact that they picked a card. When they remeber it afterwards, they will remember the effect as the magician made the card they were thinking of jump to his pocket.

Also, if there happens to be people who only walked in on the trick during the middle and did not see the person pick a card, that "only thinking of" line will make the effect stronger for them as well.

 

[RDChopper]

^^^ Interesting.

By the way I have never ever said to them that I "didnt do that" I just take the credit

 

[visualartist]

This is what I love about the human mind and magic.
Spectators always misremember an effect or string of effects and turn it into something even more impossible than the reality of what actually happened.
Even after 5 minutes of just seeing the trick!
Take my effect LIFE. I had a small plant grow from soil cupped in my hands for some acquintances and weeks later as they were reminiscing of it,the details of what happened were incredible.
They said the seed was laid out flat on my hand with my fingers outstretched and with a drop of water it began to sprout up and grow leaves on its own.
Madness.

 

[RDChopper]

But if i were you, i would use this to my advantage. Manipulating the audiences' sense of the effect is a very valuable skill. For example, at the end of all my tricks that involves a slected card, i always say some thing like "Look, the card you were only thinking of, jumps to my pocket". The key words are "only thinking of" because this makes them forget about the fact that they picked a card.

I really liked that part, but what I mean is something a bit different.

They saw the card there, they saw me putting a card in the guy's wallet and the human mind is curious, althougth we cant think two thoughts at once, we can jump back and froward between them, so most of the time they are concentrated on the trick but they are also jumping to the thought of "why the hell did he putted a card in there?" you know what I mean?


So somehow I pulled it off that way, and I wanna hear some hipothesis of why.


BTW I have to go to school now, looking forward to some good responses later on .

 

[RDChopper]

This is what I love about the human mind and magic.
Spectators always misremember an effect or string of effects and turn it into something even more impossible than the reality of what actually happened.

Yea pretty cool, in my 6 months of researching about it I have found a couple of pretty good concepts that I am applying in my act to make it stronger, but as I said before, the "card to wallet" thing is something that I wanna understand because I want to be aable to pull it off again, but being aware that Im doing that way.

 

[Ineski]

honestly, if you them to believe that, all you do is tell them that. Really, that is how easy psychology works. If you want proof, there was a study back in the 70s (i think) in which there were two people being experimented on, and one experimenter. One person was the teacher, and the other was the student. The student was actually an actor. The teacher would ask the student a series of questions, and for each question answered correctly, nothing would happen. But if the student got the question wrong, they would adminster a shock that would increase each time they got a question wrong. The shocks went up to 450 volts, which was clearly labelled as enough to kill a human being. The teachers (normal people) were only told, simply told, that they had to adminster the life threatening shock. 80% of the teachers administered this final shock when simply told to. Thats all. Just told to. The power of suggestion, right? Thats all. So, how does this relate? Well, if you can tell a human to give a death shock and they will, you can also convice them of an empty wallet with words.

The Milgram experiment doesn't have anything to do with this. Neither has it anything to do with the power of suggestion.

It is good to be awere of the fact that people really do misremember a lot of tricks. The thing where it gets intresting is where you actually try to make them misremember. This can be done with a little suggestion, misleading words, and a clever construction of events. With the card to wallet thing you can make that happen almost every time. Make a small moment of the placing the card there, don't try to get any attention to it. This is really hard to put in words but you just have to feel the right moment. Then with "time misdirection" (paranthesis of forgetfulness) most of the people come unaware of the fact that there is a card in a wallet. If other people join to watch you during your act after you've already placed the card there, then that's even better! When you finally make the card disappear never mention that you have already placed a card in the spectators wallet. Say that the card appears there - just don't mention that there already was a card in there. This will create a dual-reality where some of the spectators will experience an effect where the selection simply materialized in the wallet, and at the same time a few will see an effect where the card in the wallet transformed or transposed. It's still very strong.

I don't do that trick myself and I have never done it, but I use these kinds of techniques in my performances, and for me they seem to be working quite well. Give it a go and see if any of those ideas help.

 

[Justin.Morris]

hey great post.

just thinking about it and (random thought) you could have a second folded card and slip[ that card into their wallet in a smaller pocket (out of sight perhaps) while you are putting the other card in (so that you are one ahead). So they would see you put int the first one, but not the second one. Perhaps with a torn corner....

Put-pocketing essentially.

 

[Jacob L]

hey great post.

just thinking about it and (random thought) you could have a second folded card and slip[ that card into their wallet in a smaller pocket (out of sight perhaps) while you are putting the other card in (so that you are one ahead). So they would see you put int the first one, but not the second one. Perhaps with a torn corner....

Put-pocketing essentially.

Great idea, then you are ready for Angle Zero. Perfect set up.

 

[RDChopper]

Make a small moment of the placing the card there, don't try to get any attention to it. This is really hard to put in words but you just have to feel the right moment. .

Thanks you a lot for your time, in fact that is exactly the kind of thing that I was looking for, but I have a little trouble with that little part.

It would be kind of hard to do the "off beat" thing if I ask for someones wallet I take a card and put it inside and then hand the wallet back.

First (in my opinion) everyobdy is going to watch inmediately if you grab a wallet, lets be honest most people think that we magicians can actually pickpocket pretty good or make "things" dissapear, so if I graba a guy wallets lets be honest they all are going to be like "waooow, let's watch his hands closely" and in my opinion things that requiere more concentration or attention than other are actually memories that are harder to forget, but hey, after all , I have not tested it so I dont know for sure.

but as for the other tips, they are great, I still remember the conversation I was having with you and William D. and you talking of how it was possible to "create" memories in the minds of the spectators (am I right?) and to be sincere, that sparked my curiosity even more and it has enhanced my magic greatly, thanks for the tips and your time man.

 

[praetoritevong]

RD, the essential concept is that of misremembering an event, and, like Ineski, it's a concept I use very often.

For example, false shuffle briefly, and ask someone to cut the deck. "Cut the deck a few good times for me please." After they have cut the deck, tell them "A very fair mix, thank you."

A few stages later - "And you mixed the cards yourself, yes?"

And at the end of the routine "And you actually shuffled the deck yourself, so there's no way I could've arranged anything."

-You'd be surprised at how well that works; that is a regular feature in my scripts for memorised deck works, and I don't believe that I have ever been called out on it. They remember that they actually shuffled it.

"Once you've got'em all agreeing to what they know in their hearts ain't true, you got'em by the balls." - Sin City

Which is very true. The other thing to note is that people will naturally want to, when attempting to describe their experience, exaggerate their claims. They've experienced something amazing - and therefore, to fully describe this amazement, people are prone to embellish their story so that their facts live up to this experience and so that other people can understand the amazement that they felt.

So in other words, it was simply something that happened to be misremembered in their short term memory, and then exaggerated upon recollection. Giving the guy the card was a minor event that was given no importance. So in the heat of the moment, this memory happened to be forgotten (this does happen naturally, though its success rate so to speak can be greatly improved through deliberate technique), and upon retelling the story and exaggerating the facts, the spectators therefore committed it to their own memory and solidified it as unquestionable. The key is not simply to recreate or plant a false memory - the key is to actually get them to believe in it themselves.

 

[Randomwrath]

One way you could aid the 'misremembering' process would be to place the card in the wallet. You then perform a card to (your) pocket, emphasizing each time how the pocket was empty beforehand. Then, when you end it with card to spectator's wallet, the seeds of the idea that the place the card appears being empty have already been planted, and people will be more prone to confusing the two events.

EDIT: The other thing to do is to make sure they already have a wallet out, maybe for a prediction of how much money they have in there or something. Because they already have the wallet out, you putting the card in there will seem like less of an event.

 

[RDChopper]

One way you could aid the 'misremembering' process would be to place the card in the wallet. You then perform a card to (your) pocket, emphasizing each time how the pocket was empty beforehand. Then, when you end it with card to spectator's wallet, the seeds of the idea that the place the card appears being empty have already been planted, and people will be more prone to confusing the two events.

EDIT: The other thing to do is to make sure they already have a wallet out, maybe for a prediction of how much money they have in there or something. Because they already have the wallet out, you putting the card in there will seem like less of an event.

I just read Prea and your post Random Ill start working something up, a lot of thanks for the help.

 

[cm763]

One little tidbit that's fun to know: often times, you'll only remember about 20-30% of the information you learn in a class setting (source: my first year Psych prof). How much you remember of events in which you're not putting into effect learning strategies...it's easy to see how much of the information is lost.

I believe the psychological principle you'll want to look up is called the "Misinformation Effect" (learned about it in my Psych Research Methods course, second year); Praetoritevong gives a great example of how to put that concept into action.

Essentially, the "Misinformation Effect" involves planting thoughts into a person, whether purposefully or not.

It could be something more overt, such as asking about a specific detail ("Did he have a mustache?")...then later on, asking the same question, which will get a more positive response (the person can't separate the events of seeing the person and being asked about it--the mention of a mustache kind of meshes with how you remember the person looking).

Or, it could be less overt, such as hinting at a specific expected response ("How fast was the car going when it smashed into the other car?" as apposed to "What speed was the car going at when it collided with the other car?" -- asking the first question would garner higher estimates than the latter question).

One of the main things affected the misinformation effect is the amount of time between a) the event happening, b) the new information being introduced, and c) recall of the event (with the new information possibly part of that original memory now). The more time, the more of an effect it has.

There's more to it than that, but that gives you a basic idea. Like I mentioned, Prae gives a great example of how to use the Misinformation Effect to great use in a magic effect. I hope that helps!

 

[praetoritevong]

Great info there cm. I had a quick Google search just then and came across this fascinating paper which happened to be the car example that cm gave above, which can be found here: https://webfiles.uci.edu/eloftus/LoftusPalmer74.pdf - Loftus & Palmer, 1974. It's a very interesting read, and I think I shall see if I can incorporate this into a presentation somehow. Thanks for that, you definitely piqued my curiosity!

 

[cm763]

Great info there cm. I had a quick Google search just then and came across this fascinating paper which happened to be the car example that cm gave above, which can be found here: https://webfiles.uci.edu/eloftus/LoftusPalmer74.pdf - Loftus & Palmer, 1974. It's a very interesting read, and I think I shall see if I can incorporate this into a presentation somehow. Thanks for that, you definitely piqued my curiosity!

That Loftus & Palmer article is actually the one that started it all...or is most cited, anyway. Loftus has done some work on it since then (branching off in different, but similar, directions), but that one definitely set the ground work. Good find.

On a side note, I'm surprised it was available somewhere for free, given that it's a journal article, which is supposed to be copyrighted.

 

[praetoritevong]

Huh. I didn't think of that. Apologies if it is actually illegal... It was linked to by Wikipedia, lol..

 

[Ola]

I haven't performed much of this sort of thing, but I've been the spectator in something like this a couple of years ago, and I remember it well, but not what really happened.

This was probably four years ago, way before my interest in magic came to be.

A friend showed me a trick, and it was incredible.

I thought of a card, didn't tell him.
I remember shuffling the deck, giving it back, and then he picked up the top card.
He held it face up so I could see it, and it was just a random card.

He lifted up about half of the deck, and he threw the card through the gap in the deck, and midair, the card changed into my thoughtof-card.

Both me an my girlfriend have been thinking a lot about this trick the last years, and so I went and asked him, seeing as I've become a "magician" myself now

He told me I had picked a card, he had shuffled the deck, I had cut it once on the table, he had keycarded the card from there and doublelifted it.
then he showed me the indifferent card, laid it back down on the deck, picking up my card face down.
He threw the card still face down through the deck, and I turned it around when it landed on the other side of the deck.


As you (hopefully) can see, my perception and memory of what had happened didn't match reality at all.
Not one bit.

I think this says a lot about why tricks are so magic to laymen.
There's a lot in it they don't understand, and simple tricks will also get good reactions.
They only remember what they know, and they don't know double lifts and keycards, they don't know think about how a cut brings two cards together, they don't think about such simple things, so they make the moment seem even a little more magic in their minds.

 

[Andy.Boss.Glass]

how is it not, inseki? I see your point completely, but i still feel that just telling someone to do or not to do something is suggestion, whether they agree with it or not. the milgirm experiment was used to show how easily the human mind can be "suggested" if you will.