Ellusionist - Losing Touch?

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Sep 1, 2007
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To Steepike,

In no way am I intending to offend you by saying this...but...

There's no way in hell there's anything worth reading past that.

No. You still have taken time to actually look for what you need or have taken time to get a card. Not exposure.

That's even worse of a stretch. To look up exposure videos, you have to take the time and effort to search for them. What, it doesn't count because there's no walking involved?

The public library is free, thus by your definition it is exposure. You don't actually own the book, so by all technical aspects you don't have the performance rights.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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What?


Everything is business, they couldn't care less about how many people hate them. As long as people are buying things than they are happy.

If E doesn't care about if people hate them and all they care about is people buying their material then answer this....

Why would people continue shopping at E, if they hated E?
 
Sep 1, 2007
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I love how the theory11 forums are a lot less stringent on their controls on the forum, but, isn't this a general "magic" forum?

aren't we supposed to be discussing magic?
 
Sep 1, 2007
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SOME of their products are of very high quality.

point being?

are you saying that even though people hate Ellusionist they shop there because of the fact that they make good products?

If i was the best at what i did, i couldn't care less if people hated me or not.

Damn dude can't reach those grapes!
 
Sep 3, 2007
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Alrighty, I'm gonna attempt to throw my 2 cents into the ring.

First of all, the egos are stunning. Who do you think you are, dictating who can and cannot learn methods of magic? What, you can do some card tricks and all of a sudden you're better than the general population? Somehow that raises you above the ignorant and foolish population to make you somebody better? How dare you place yourself on a pedestal like that?

It's not our place to say who can and cannot learn magic. And even if we felt it were, it's impossible to keep it under wraps the way so many of you wish to do. How did you learn magic? You could say you paid your dues, purchased products, all that good stuff. I learned my magic for free. Does that make any less of an effective performer? Does that somehow detract from my abilities with sleights and showmanship? Am I worse than you because I started learning from a friend rather than paying money?

Who's to say a great magician won't emerge from watching that show? Who's to decide that everybody who hops on to the site that offers the free trick will be a total screwup? This is not to say that everybody who sees it will become a professional magician, but for the few who don't have the financial freedom to spend however much to buy a magic book, this is a jumping off point.

The key to flagging exposure is the intent. Ellusionist has made it clear that it's not attempting to call out magicians and blow their cover; they're trying to teach people to actually use the tricks.

And now you cry about it because you think that everybody's going to know your secrets. Like this one show, these free tricks, this whole issue is somehow going to tear down the walls of magic. There have been shows like this around for years; the masked magician makes his living off of them. The internet is a relatively new medium (compared to television), but the idea is the same, and the effect will be the same too: a small number of people will actually care enough to remember, and the rest will forget.

I saw the masked magician special on street magic a long time ago, and saw an ash through hand penetration. I thought it was a simple, effective trick, so I started using it. Not once did I get caught. It was explained in detail on television, and still nobody knew. Am I somehow a phenomal performer? Should I be world famous for pulling this off?

People don't care. They want to be fooled, otherwise magic would never have gotten off the ground. Don't underestimate the willingness of your audience to enjoy your show; hecklers are the minority.

And if they teach the DL, man up and learn a way to get around. There are so many ways to avoid getting caught on DL's, not the hardest of methods being the lovely Kadeiro-Marlo move (gah I hope I spelled that correctly). And if you do get caught, don't be a complete wuss about it and blame Ellusionist, the exposing scapegoat. Why don't you sit down and work on a way to pull off the move so that nobody gets wise to it?

Shows like this have no resounding effect on the intelligence of the population. These shows do nothing more than teach a few people simple tricks, that they may or may not perform. And those that perform may or may not do a good job. But ultimately, nobody really cares. Or at least, nobody should care. Because when some heckler idiot comes along to expose the methods that he learned from sites like the free-trick site that ellusionist has up or from the masked magician specials he sat and watched, the audience is going to side with the magician. Because nobody likes a heckler. He's just too into himself to care.
 
Jan 27, 2008
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Since when have I been one to go with an opinion just because it's the majority?

I find it very coincadental.

You immediately assume the worst of the people watching Celebracadabra. You assume the worst of those who click on the link.

How am I assuming the worse?

You're either afraid of your audience, or you just selfishly don't want to share your table. Which is it?

Umm, I perform for people. I don't think I'm afraid of anyone.

Try me.

Bull feces.

Considering you haven't been able to access those forums for a while now, you're not really in a position to talk.

What are you talking about? I've almost always had access to the forums over their. I've had long breaks; I get bored and I just don't visit for a couple of weeks. But every time I do visit, there's an ass-load of locked threads there.

Somtimes, it starts out civil conversation but then someone feels offended and then starts a mean debate. No one -- not even the moderators -- will step-up and be the bigger man by responding politely; not fueling a fire which will eventually be extinguish by consistent posting.

There's also a lot of instigation though.

Actually, I just took another visit and I just saw three locked threads around the bottom-half of the page. One of them is about to be lost in the second pages.



But of course, people will say that about anything they publish.

Yah. No credibility in the majority. After all, if almost everyones' opinion is virtually the same, but formulated independently, its not right. :)

That's it. My faith in magicians is completely dead now. I'm going to go drink the pain away.

I thought you already said something like this much earlier?

To Steepike,

In no way am I intending to offend you by saying this...but...

Why is it when people say something virtually similar to, "With all do respect but..." They really mean: "Kiss my ass you retard?"

Don't you have better things to do then comment on EVERY SINGLE post you don't agree with?

Debates are fun! Besides, we all need to get our opinions out here so we can all get this nasty thing of off our chests. Threads like these are needed, just not all of the time.

Is that what you do all day?

Do you like calling people out while simultaneously not donating anything to the discussion? Is that what you do all day?

We don't mind Steerpike's posting. Why shouldn't you?

Kinda' defeats the point of a forum if no one posts in threads they have strong feelings about. Personally...i really wish T-11 would take the same stance on pointless E bashing in its forums as E does against pointless T-11 bashing in its forums.

As pointless as it may be, we all need to talk about this once in a great while to get our negative opinions off our chests.

He said, she said, they did this and that....pretty bloody pathetic don't ya'll think?

Well aren't you high-and-mighty?

I love how the theory11 forums are a lot less stringent on their controls on the forum, but, isn't this a general "magic" forum?

Sometimes, this becomes annoying because they'll allow almost ANYTHING. At least in E forums, there's never constant bull feces threads.

Alrighty, I'm gonna attempt to throw my 2 cents into the ring.

First of all, the egos are stunning. Who do you think you are, dictating who can and cannot learn methods of magic? What, you can do some card tricks and all of a sudden you're better than the general population? Somehow that raises you above the ignorant and foolish population to make you somebody better? How dare you place yourself on a pedestal like that?

That's a really cynical and hyperbolic perspective there.

..........

Man, overnight 3 more pages have been added onto here but almost all of the recent posts (I'm not talking about yours, Steerpike) are incessant one-liners. Maybe a paragraph or two but that's it! What's up people?

..:Z:..
 
point being?

are you saying that even though people hate Ellusionist they shop there because of the fact that they make good products?

If i was the best at what i did, i couldn't care less if people hated me or not.

Damn dude can't reach those grapes!

I didn't say all of their products are good. Just some of them, at least IMO. I couldn't care less for some of their material.
 
Jan 27, 2008
202
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I know this is off-topic but are we allowed to put little digital pictures beside our screen names now? Because I'm starting to see a lot of it.

..:Z:..
 
..........

Man, overnight 3 more pages have been added onto here but almost all of the recent posts (I'm not talking about yours, Steerpike) are incessant one-liners. Maybe a paragraph or two but that's it! What's up people?

..:Z:..

You maybe need to look at your own posts then Z.

And no...i wasn't being high and mighty...anyone over the age of 10 can see that this thread descended into farce a long time ago.

Again...you should look to your own words before you have a go at mine.


I'd like to write paragraphs and paragraphs on this for you, but I've got better things to be doing with my time. And that wasn't being high and mighty either...I'm at work so i actually have.


Peace out.


Rabid
 
Jan 27, 2008
202
0
You maybe need to look at your own posts then Z.

And no...i wasn't being high and mighty...anyone over the age of 10 can see that this thread descended into farce a long time ago.

Again...you should look to your own words before you have a go at mine.


I'd like to write paragraphs and paragraphs on this for you, but I've got better things to be doing with my time. And that wasn't being high and mighty either...I'm at work so i actually have.


Peace out.


Rabid

Ouch, another bad case of misinterpretation.

Clarification (that shouldn't be necessary): By incessant one-liners, I might that I am constantly am seeing posts that has literally only one line of text in each of them.

And besides, I wasn't even referring to yours.

Jeez, anyone over 10 years old could've figured that out! :p

Keep up the cynical attitude there!

..:Z:..
 
Ouch, another bad case of misinterpretation.

Clarification (that shouldn't be necessary): By incessant one-liners, I might that I am constantly am seeing posts that has literally only one line of text in each of them.

Anyone over 10 years old could've figured that out! :p

..:Z:..

And anyone over 10 can write a coherent sentence.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you Z as you seem unwilling to do anything other than post meaningless jibes for the most part.

Look over you previous posts. I know what an incessant one liner is when i see one.

Seriously mate...grow up.

(That was me being high and mighty by the way)


Rabid
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I find it very coincadental.

What's coincidental about the fact that I disagree with a lot of things?

How am I assuming the worse?

Look at the way you talk. You act as if the only people going to the tutorials are exposure monkeys. As if no one going there actually wants to learn magic. Why?

Umm, I perform for people. I don't think I'm afraid of anyone.

The you just don't want to share your table.

Somtimes, it starts out civil conversation but then someone feels offended and then starts a mean debate. No one -- not even the moderators -- will step-up and be the bigger man by responding politely; not fueling a fire which will eventually be extinguish by consistent posting.

Glass houses, friend. Glass houses.

I thought you already said something like this much earlier?

I talk about drinking a lot. Alcohol is an unconditional friend.

That's a really cynical and hyperbolic perspective there.

There's truth to it, though.

Artists in general have a strong selfish side and don't want the laity to join their ranks. You see it all the time, and it's hard to avoid going through such a phase. It's like a high school cafeteria where everyone breaks off into their own little cliques and are reluctant to allow anyone else to share their unofficially designated tables.

Ever see the movie Clueless? Great movie, but the observations on social structure hit closer to home than most people care to admit. It's as true in that movie as it was when Jane Austen wrote it.

Man, overnight 3 more pages have been added onto here but almost all of the recent posts (I'm not talking about yours, Steerpike) are incessant one-liners. Maybe a paragraph or two but that's it! What's up people?

Take a look at the joke thread I posted about the worst exposers of all time. That should give you a clue what's going on.

But at the same time, I must repeat... glass houses.
 
Jan 27, 2008
202
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And anyone over 10 can write a coherent sentence.

Sure they can.

I'm not going to get into an argument with you Z as you seem unwilling to do anything other than post meaningless jibes for the most part.

Then why are you humoring me?

Look over you previous posts. I know what an incessant one liner is when i see one.

Of course you do.

Seriously mate...grow up.

(That was me being high and mighty by the way)

Irony.

Rabid

..............
 
Jan 27, 2008
202
0
Look at the way you talk. You act as if the only people going to the tutorials are exposure monkeys. As if no one going there actually wants to learn magic. Why?

Isn't it unethical to learn effect without paying your respects to the author/originator? Would you be okay if I learned KAOS through YouTube without paying the conceiver a dime? I don't think so....

The you just don't want to share your table.

I don't get it.

Glass houses, friend. Glass houses.

Mind telling me what this means? I'm horrible at researching idioms (if that is one).

I talk about drinking a lot. Alcohol is an unconditional friend.

Man, my parents would probably flip-out after reading something like that.

But at the same time, I must repeat... glass houses.

...........
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Isn't it unethical to learn effect without paying your respects to the author/originator? Would you be okay if I learned KAOS through YouTube without paying the conceiver a dime? I don't think so....

And what of the example Brad gave earlier of the library?

I went to the Carnegie Library hear in Pittsburgh and found Mark Wilson's Course in Magic and Modern Coin Magic. I own both, but anybody could check out either of those books and learn way more than just KAOS. And they wouldn't have to pay a dime because it's a public library.

Where do you draw the line? How do you make the distinction?

I don't get it.

I refer again to my example of the movie Clueless. If you haven't watched it, I suggest you do. And then read the book it was based on, Emma by Jane Austen. There's a lot of astute social criticisms in both that are as true now as they were back then.

Simply put, everyone wants to be a part of something, but they want the doors closed once they join.

Mind telling me what this means? I'm horrible at researching idioms (if that is one).

People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
 
Dec 4, 2007
1,074
2
www.thrallmind.com
.::Z::. said:
Steerpike said:
Look at the way you talk. You act as if the only people going to the tutorials are exposure monkeys. As if no one going there actually wants to learn magic. Why?

Isn't it unethical to learn effect without paying your respects to the author/originator? Would you be okay if I learned KAOS through YouTube without paying the conceiver a dime? I don't think so....


I don't see anywhere in that that post where Steerpike says he condones exposure.


The you just don't want to share your table.

I don't get it.


You don't want others to be able to perform magic.


Glass houses, friend. Glass houses.

Mind telling me what this means? I'm horrible at researching idioms (if that is one).


People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


I talk about drinking a lot. Alcohol is an unconditional friend.

Man, my parents would probably flip-out after reading something like that.


Because you are young, maybe?


But at the same time, I must repeat... glass houses.


-ThrallMind
 
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