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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Dylan P., May 1, 2008.
Don't you do the same thing while searching for something on the internet?
There's no way in hell there's anything worth reading past that.
That's even worse of a stretch. To look up exposure videos, you have to take the time and effort to search for them. What, it doesn't count because there's no walking involved?
The public library is free, thus by your definition it is exposure. You don't actually own the book, so by all technical aspects you don't have the performance rights.
Somebody got it!
If E doesn't care about if people hate them and all they care about is people buying their material then answer this....
Why would people continue shopping at E, if they hated E?
I love how the theory11 forums are a lot less stringent on their controls on the forum, but, isn't this a general "magic" forum?
aren't we supposed to be discussing magic?
SOME of their products are of very high quality.
are you saying that even though people hate Ellusionist they shop there because of the fact that they make good products?
If i was the best at what i did, i couldn't care less if people hated me or not.
Damn dude can't reach those grapes!
Alrighty, I'm gonna attempt to throw my 2 cents into the ring.
First of all, the egos are stunning. Who do you think you are, dictating who can and cannot learn methods of magic? What, you can do some card tricks and all of a sudden you're better than the general population? Somehow that raises you above the ignorant and foolish population to make you somebody better? How dare you place yourself on a pedestal like that?
It's not our place to say who can and cannot learn magic. And even if we felt it were, it's impossible to keep it under wraps the way so many of you wish to do. How did you learn magic? You could say you paid your dues, purchased products, all that good stuff. I learned my magic for free. Does that make any less of an effective performer? Does that somehow detract from my abilities with sleights and showmanship? Am I worse than you because I started learning from a friend rather than paying money?
Who's to say a great magician won't emerge from watching that show? Who's to decide that everybody who hops on to the site that offers the free trick will be a total screwup? This is not to say that everybody who sees it will become a professional magician, but for the few who don't have the financial freedom to spend however much to buy a magic book, this is a jumping off point.
The key to flagging exposure is the intent. Ellusionist has made it clear that it's not attempting to call out magicians and blow their cover; they're trying to teach people to actually use the tricks.
And now you cry about it because you think that everybody's going to know your secrets. Like this one show, these free tricks, this whole issue is somehow going to tear down the walls of magic. There have been shows like this around for years; the masked magician makes his living off of them. The internet is a relatively new medium (compared to television), but the idea is the same, and the effect will be the same too: a small number of people will actually care enough to remember, and the rest will forget.
I saw the masked magician special on street magic a long time ago, and saw an ash through hand penetration. I thought it was a simple, effective trick, so I started using it. Not once did I get caught. It was explained in detail on television, and still nobody knew. Am I somehow a phenomal performer? Should I be world famous for pulling this off?
People don't care. They want to be fooled, otherwise magic would never have gotten off the ground. Don't underestimate the willingness of your audience to enjoy your show; hecklers are the minority.
And if they teach the DL, man up and learn a way to get around. There are so many ways to avoid getting caught on DL's, not the hardest of methods being the lovely Kadeiro-Marlo move (gah I hope I spelled that correctly). And if you do get caught, don't be a complete wuss about it and blame Ellusionist, the exposing scapegoat. Why don't you sit down and work on a way to pull off the move so that nobody gets wise to it?
Shows like this have no resounding effect on the intelligence of the population. These shows do nothing more than teach a few people simple tricks, that they may or may not perform. And those that perform may or may not do a good job. But ultimately, nobody really cares. Or at least, nobody should care. Because when some heckler idiot comes along to expose the methods that he learned from sites like the free-trick site that ellusionist has up or from the masked magician specials he sat and watched, the audience is going to side with the magician. Because nobody likes a heckler. He's just too into himself to care.
Man, overnight 3 more pages have been added onto here but almost all of the recent posts (I'm not talking about yours, Steerpike) are incessant one-liners. Maybe a paragraph or two but that's it! What's up people?
I didn't say all of their products are good. Just some of them, at least IMO. I couldn't care less for some of their material.
I know this is off-topic but are we allowed to put little digital pictures beside our screen names now? Because I'm starting to see a lot of it.
You maybe need to look at your own posts then Z.
And no...i wasn't being high and mighty...anyone over the age of 10 can see that this thread descended into farce a long time ago.
Again...you should look to your own words before you have a go at mine.
I'd like to write paragraphs and paragraphs on this for you, but I've got better things to be doing with my time. And that wasn't being high and mighty either...I'm at work so i actually have.
Ouch, another bad case of misinterpretation.
Clarification (that shouldn't be necessary): By incessant one-liners, I might that I am constantly am seeing posts that has literally only one line of text in each of them.
And besides, I wasn't even referring to yours.
Jeez, anyone over 10 years old could've figured that out!
Keep up the cynical attitude there!
And anyone over 10 can write a coherent sentence.
I'm not going to get into an argument with you Z as you seem unwilling to do anything other than post meaningless jibes for the most part.
Look over you previous posts. I know what an incessant one liner is when i see one.
Seriously mate...grow up.
(That was me being high and mighty by the way)
What's coincidental about the fact that I disagree with a lot of things?
Look at the way you talk. You act as if the only people going to the tutorials are exposure monkeys. As if no one going there actually wants to learn magic. Why?
The you just don't want to share your table.
Glass houses, friend. Glass houses.
I talk about drinking a lot. Alcohol is an unconditional friend.
There's truth to it, though.
Artists in general have a strong selfish side and don't want the laity to join their ranks. You see it all the time, and it's hard to avoid going through such a phase. It's like a high school cafeteria where everyone breaks off into their own little cliques and are reluctant to allow anyone else to share their unofficially designated tables.
Ever see the movie Clueless? Great movie, but the observations on social structure hit closer to home than most people care to admit. It's as true in that movie as it was when Jane Austen wrote it.
Take a look at the joke thread I posted about the worst exposers of all time. That should give you a clue what's going on.
But at the same time, I must repeat... glass houses.
And what of the example Brad gave earlier of the library?
I went to the Carnegie Library hear in Pittsburgh and found Mark Wilson's Course in Magic and Modern Coin Magic. I own both, but anybody could check out either of those books and learn way more than just KAOS. And they wouldn't have to pay a dime because it's a public library.
Where do you draw the line? How do you make the distinction?
I refer again to my example of the movie Clueless. If you haven't watched it, I suggest you do. And then read the book it was based on, Emma by Jane Austen. There's a lot of astute social criticisms in both that are as true now as they were back then.
Simply put, everyone wants to be a part of something, but they want the doors closed once they join.
People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Both of you, CALM DOWN!