Another ethical question - Who would you work for?

[joshrobarts]

you wont like him when he's angry....




again i really think it depends on how much you disagree with the company. If they are just selling something you dont particularly like, it doesn't matter that much if you perform for them. If their whole basis is that of evil then you have a point. But let me ask you this, would you be that particular for a crowd of spectators? If you are performing and find out that within your crowd you have an anti-semite, a pro-choice supporter, a smoker and a redneck are you gonna stop performing? will you stop for just some of them and continue for others? Or will you continue your set because their life choices are theirs and its not directly effecting you.

Also does a company's views directly reflect upon ALL its employee's? If your doing a show for a conference with mid-level exec's do you assume that they are the decision maker's for the company or are they just hoping for a nice show before a boring meeting? If its a MC job for a factory, do you assume every factory worker has the moral of the CEO or are they just working a job?

Just something to think about

 

[KeoSilver]

To be completely honest, when I perform I put aside personal beliefs and morals that I have been brought up on. In my current situation, if I was to be offered a high paying gig, I'd take it in a heart beat regardless of what these people do or sell. But then again I do not have much experience in the paid department of magic and I tend to think "in the now" time meaning I don't look to far into the future.

 

[Justin.Morris]

Wow there are some fantastic thoughts.

I purposefully didn't mention the product, as to not skew the intent of the discussion.

This is was (for me) one of those black and white things. This product will kill a lot of people (not death penalty lol). I can't help promote that to international buyers.

However, what about where the consequences are less direct - say a diamond company or a coffee company - something where there is slavery involved or say in the coffee industry, which fuels suffering and oppression around the globe.

How far removed does the suffering need to be before you will say yes to helping with the promotion of the product?

This is something I never really considered when entering the corporate market- now the rubber has hit the road.

Keep the thoughts coming, I'm finding it very interesting.

 

[Nino]

I like this thread....its keep me thinking.

Well here are some of my thoughts. If I got offer a gig that the company sell things I'm against I will say no to that company. I'm against it so I don't want to put my name out there under their product simple as that. Now some of yall say the money is money, but money isn't everything. Yes I'm a magican who wants to get paid, but I would put my beliefs first then the job itself. Maybe jusy maybe I lost my big break. I won't care cause I made the right decision for me. Maybe I'll get another chance maybe I won't but if I stood up for my belief I will be proud of myself.

To the OP, glad you stick to your beliefs maybe down the road this will repay you and you will find a job that will take you somewhere.

 

[joshrobarts]

again its about levels to me,

are you working for a diamond company CEO? or a local retailer, ive worked a meeting for Zales local reps, i doubt they are buying conflict diamonds, and as for coffee, do you boycott buying your morning cup of joe? if not how is not doing a meeting any better? where do you draw the line, if we were all supremely moral beings we would never buy chicken, beef, Walmart anything, clothing that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, gas...etc
the list goes on.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

It's not about being a 'supremely moral' person, it's about defining your own limits. It's not (usually) a black and white kind of thing, you have to decide where, in the grey, you are drawing your line.

 

[Justin.Morris]

again its about levels to me,

are you working for a diamond company CEO? or a local retailer, ive worked a meeting for Zales local reps, i doubt they are buying conflict diamonds, and as for coffee, do you boycott buying your morning cup of joe? if not how is not doing a meeting any better? where do you draw the line, if we were all supremely moral beings we would never buy chicken, beef, Walmart anything, clothing that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, gas...etc
the list goes on.

lol definitely, it was said earlier that you might not get any work if you worried too much.

I like the thoughts about levels. That makes sense.

 

[wZEnigma]

A great line about ethics was delivered in the movie Flash of Genius.

Okay, I officially love you for quoting that movie! And your entire post I agree with. Let me elaborate.

I would stand up for my thoughts no matter what. If I was asked to support a political party, I wouldn't (namely because all politicians are hypocrites). Or cigarettes, as previously mentioned. Good job to you for doing that. You set an example for the rest of the people in this thread who would give in for a few bills and sacrifice their morals. Under extreme conditions, like desperate financial need, I understand. Otherwise, no.

And yeah, what was the product? If you can say. I highly doubt it's shampoo...

Ian

 

[Cedric Taylor]

Can't really say that because i don't know what your morals are nor do i know the kind of job you're being offered.

 

[dejavu05]

Okay, I officially love you for quoting that movie! And your entire post I agree with. Let me elaborate.

I would stand up for my thoughts no matter what. If I was asked to support a political party, I wouldn't (namely because all politicians are hypocrites). Or cigarettes, as previously mentioned. Good job to you for doing that. You set an example for the rest of the people in this thread who would give in for a few bills and sacrifice their morals. Under extreme conditions, like desperate financial need, I understand. Otherwise, no.

And yeah, what was the product? If you can say. I highly doubt it's shampoo...

Ian

I'm glad you liked my post! I absolutely love that quote.

 

[Justin.Morris]

And yeah, what was the product? If you can say. I highly doubt it's shampoo...

The company was Iimperial Tobacco. Canada's largest tobacco company (Players, du Marier, Peter Jackson etc).

Can't really say that because i don't know what your morals are nor do i know the kind of job you're being offered.

I know where my lines are, but I'm wondering where your lines are. Just as an interesting discussion. Everyone will be different. It's really enlightening to hear other points of view.

 

[Cedric Taylor]

Well I totally get you now that i see what it was...

Well I'm a spiritual guy. It can't be compromising to my religion my any means.....

or else i wouldn't take the job.....

 

[JetEyeNight]

While cigarrettes kill people, it's the people's choice who are smoking them. They have a choice to not smoke. They'd rather smoke and die. I think many people would be more misreable without cigarrettes.

I do applaud you for standing up for what you believe in.

 

[Manny Buendia]

Well I think that if you go to the gig, doesn't mean that you like cigarrettes or you support the company, they've just ask you if you can entertain the people who DID support the company and like the cigarrette or the tobacco business..

You are just going to do what you like to do.. Entertain. Plus they're paying you.
I think that in this case I might think it again.. Like JetEyeNight says.. Many people die for smoking.. but it's their decision..

My limits would be if there's a conference about animal testing products.. they cant choose..

I do applaud you for standing up for what you believe in, I really do.. And you dont have to sell you.. or do things that go against of all that you believe in..

Someone else say something like if you go to a conference about the pro's of death penalty.. Well.. if you are there doesn't mean that you support that.. So if you are at the cigarrete company event.. doesnt mean that you support them.. It means that they ask for your service..

Well that's my opinion..

 

[Justin.Morris]

Well I think that if you go to the gig, doesn't mean that you like cigarrettes or you support the company, they've just ask you if you can entertain the people who DID support the company and like the cigarrette or the tobacco business..

You are just going to do what you like to do.. Entertain. Plus they're paying you.
I think that in this case I might think it again.. Like JetEyeNight says.. Many people die for smoking.. but it's their decision..

My limits would be if there's a conference about animal testing products.. they cant choose..

I do applaud you for standing up for what you believe in, I really do.. And you dont have to sell you.. or do things that go against of all that you believe in..

Someone else say something like if you go to a conference about the pro's of death penalty.. Well.. if you are there doesn't mean that you support that.. So if you are at the cigarrete company event.. doesnt mean that you support them.. It means that they ask for your service..

Well that's my opinion..

Heh, i definitely thought about the whole "it's their choice" thing.

With this particular situation I would have been helping in the promotion of a new product. Me being there would have helped to make the product look better, and sell better.

 

[James Smith]

So I got a call today from a company that offered me a gig. It was for a product release they are doing,and they brought together 50 international big wigs for this. This company does HUNDREDS of BILLIONS of dollars in business.

But I don't agree with the product they are selling.

So I said no.

I don't make a living strictly from magic, but this show would have been one that I could have started to charge more for. This was a chance for a possible "big break", but I needed to stick to my convictions.

To be honest it takes the wind out of me a bit just thinking about it. I had never thought about it before. Where is my line?

So, what would be your line? What job(or companies) would you say 'no' to? Where do you think your ethical lines are? Have you ever been in a similar situation?

Just thinking out loud.

I say you made the right decision, I hopefully would've done the same. Sometimes you just have to look at your "WWRATMD?" (What would Rage Against the Machine Do?) wristband. Ok, maybe RATM isn't the best example...

 

[wZEnigma]

I say you made the right decision, I hopefully would've done the same. Sometimes you just have to look at your "WWRATMD?" (What would Rage Against the Machine Do?) wristband. Ok, maybe RATM isn't the best example...

I got a pocket fulla shells bro.

Ian

 

[James Smith]

I got a pocket fulla shells bro.

Ian

They rally 'round the family.

This is an interesting topic to me; I was at a Giants-Dodgers game and when Scott Podsednik came up to bat a Giants fan next to me, "You're a sellout Podsednik! You here me? A sellout!" Since then I've been thinking about what classifies someone as a sellout. I would not consider playing for the LA Dodgers a sellout

 

[Vorezo]

The company was Iimperial Tobacco. Canada's largest tobacco company (Players, du Marier, Peter Jackson etc).



.

Where in Canada are you from?

 

[Justin.Morris]

Where in Canada are you from?

From Alberta. Are you in Canada?