Books or DVD's?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by magicinmyveins, Apr 28, 2010.

  1. So because it's not being utilized to it's fullest, it must be equal to, but not better than books? Not sure how that's logical, let alone a strong argument. And because books have worked just fine, that means DVDs are not a better media format? Again, not sure how that's logical or a strong argument.

    Books are pretty much at their technological height. The addition of pictures was huge for print media. For video, the format is still advancing. It's not even being utilized to its fullest at the moment (especially because people seem to not really put much effort into it, or at least a lot less than they should--the media is such that clarity should not be an issue, but like you've mentioned, in many cases it is, which is sad, but that's just how some people are, I suppose).

    Also not sure why I'm even replying; this matters not to me, nor will this affect anything (people will still watch/read what they want, and people will still rush out to either media format just to get their name out there, putting a LOT less into their work than they should be). :confused:
     
  2. I've seen the question come up so many times that it's almost embarrassing. If you like books get books. If you like DVD get a DVD. No one can tell you how you learn the best.
     
  3. books or dvd´s

    i see we got a good debate going on here and i can understand allot of points thats going around!! so for the new people reading this post whats your oppinion on the matter!! ??
     
  4. I have debated this issue to death. I think Brad and I even had a thread awhile back debating this pretty heavily.

    I do not think we are ever going to get everyone to agree on what method is better for learning. Both have pros and cons.

    If I remember correctly, Brad and I are both veteran teachers and both of us understand that a "ones sizes fits all" approach / model for learning does not work well with all the various types of learners throughout the world.
     
  5. books or DVD´s

    im just verry curious to know what people actualy prefer!! this might probably have no true end cause there is so many people who actualy rather read a book and learn from it!! and other rather watch a DVD!! i actualy like both!!

    just trying to figure out what everyone else finds usefull!!
     
  6. I am going to be honest...maybe I`ll get bashed for this, but well...

    For begginers I think it`s absolutely better to buy a DVD, since it`s more visual and they get to learn some good tricks in little time...I NEVER recommend books to begginers...I used to...but when I did that people just think "books? how boring!!!" and then their interest is vanished...I know,I know...some people here would disagree with me, but hey!! I think a DVD spark a greatest interest in begginers than a book, since it`s quick and visual...eventually 2 things would happen...they lose interest and quit magic...or sometimes they take the craft seriously and research more...

    I know some of the pro`s here including T11 artists recommend to go to a library and get all magic books that they can...but see...in all the libraries I went I have never found a magic book....never...so when I started giving magic classes I first recommend some DVD`S....and now, they all have their Royal Road To Magic and Bobo Modern Coin Magic books on them all the time...since I only teach or recommend to people I feel have commitment....

    I think it`s not completely right to recommend books to first starters...since:

    -sometimes are hard to find
    -looks pretty boring
    -usually magic is seen as a very cool art and what is particulary good of magic is that is easy to start with...to start with!!


    sometimes a book is hard to understand...not all books, of course, but some of them...but a DVD usually teach them some easy tricks and then the majority of the time they want more and there where they start looking for books or more advanced knowledge...

    I know the books are better than the DVD`S but I don`t think we need to close ourselves to only books...the technology is here and we should use it too...
     
  7. Ha Ha...ok. I'm going to throw a wrench into the mix. I actually prefer my mentor as my best learning mechanism, who does one one one lessons at his house for 2 hours at at time. This is where I have made leaps and bounds within my card magic and sleights.
     
  8. i find this true i have been to loads of libraries and never found a magic book there!!

    and reverhart you are lucky because you have or had a mentor who thought you allot of what you know now!! now there are allot of people out there including me who never had a mentor so allot of what i know is based on books and allot of DVD´s!!
     
  9. at my church the pastors wife is a college professor on teaching, she teaches teaching strategy, theory all that good stuff.

    and she said something to the effect of "the ideal learning/teaching experience is tailored to each student individually, but its not practical in public schools"

    thats why mentors are the best solution, because its one-on-one with somebody who knows their stuff.

    but there arent enough magicians around good enough to be a mentor to all the students of magic around the world. its just not possible.

    so were forced to settle for a sort of self-taught system. i see magic as a kid who wants to be a mathematician going out and buying math textbooks and teaching himself. tough stuff!!! but alot of people have to do it.
     
  10. Worldwideme...yes that is correct. The best system would be tailored individually to each student. That is why struggling students get put on an IEP (individualized education program) so that they are able to find some success and get accomodations made available to them.

    I truthfully do the best with a mentor but really enjoy reading magic theory out of books. I do have a nice collection of DVD's but I find myself "mirroring" effects too much.

    I just happened to get really lucky and meet a mentor through my IBM ring and he happens to be a professional.

    I feel bad for magicians who want to take it to the next level that do not have the opportunity to. It is probably much harder learning things completely on your own and out of a book but it can be done.
     
  11. personally i prefer books because when you are trying to figure out the effect you can mess up so many times and then when you finally figure it out you know WHY other ways dont work with dvds you simply copy exactly what you see and thats not what i feel i need. i need to know how it will work best for ME! wich is why i say BOOKS
     
  12. do you find that iep programs are successful? because here the iep kids typically have physical/mental handicaps and its more of a special ed in the classroom thing. and most teachers feel bogged down when they get an iep student.

    it bothers me.

    Back to magic!!

    i see a new learning tool that hasnt been discussed here! i havent taken part in it due to a restricting budget. but! the online courses with Luke Jermay on penguin? anybody know what i'm talking about? where he teaches a course based on a famous piece of mentalism literature (Ex: Annemans Practical Mental Magic, 13 steps)
     
  13. I see this question all the time and i think it is stupid.

    If i want to learn a effect that is in a book i will buy the book and if i find a effect that i want to learn from a dvd i buy the dvd.

    Also i think that it depends, some books like Card College has some of the clearest instructions ever and will be easier to learn from then most dvds. But i cant see how anyone could think its easier to learn say a move from Erdnase then from learning it in a HD video with Jason England.
     
  14. i prefer DVD's just because you can see all the hand position's and you can make sure you got the right grip and stuff, were as books just say put your index finger here and crap like that so im not to lazy to pick up a book i just think DVD'S are better to learn from
     

  15. The reason you are replying is because you care about magic and discussing the means of best learning it are important.

    Sorry I have been away - am trying to cut back ont he typing I do on the blackberry.

    But here is my issue - and it is almost a semantic one.

    you are claiming that DVDs can be clearer, better, etc than books.

    First, let me be clear, I am not here to argue preferences. What works for you works for you (just, for god's sake, don't tell me you prefer using dvds because you are a "visual learner." That's like saying you need handicapped parking because you walk well.)

    However, there is no evidence to suggest that DVDs are better/clearer/more efficient/whatever because they are simply dvds.

    Now, we can see HOW the differences they offer MIGHT result in a different learning experience, but just because something is presented on DVD does NOT make it a more successful learning experience for the student.

    What you are saying is akin to "We are a school that is known for producing nobel prize winning scientists. We have just added a new program that has lots of new, fun, exciting elements and people really enjoy being in the program. This new program will produce more and better nobel prize winning scientists."

    Well, maybe. It might.

    But just because a program is new or different doesn't guarantee it will be successful, EVEN if it looks like it should.

    Case in point - magicians have used film for instructional media for decades, but effectively we can point to the mid 80's as the beginning of mass market magic instruction through video.

    We've had over 25 years of people using video to learn magic. Has the performance quality of magicians increased over that time?

    Here's what I see - and we can debate this here or at some other point - but I see more and more mastery of technique and less and less understanding of performance and the structure that goes into creating deceptive, commercial pieces of magic. I have also seen a pandemic of derivative and outright identical ideas and styles as people seem to know less and less about what has come before. This I don't think has to do with the media of video per se, but the derivative performance styles IS a function of video learning.

    Here is why I am replying to this thread: Magic is important to me. And I want future and current generations of magicians to make choices and have tools that empower them to reach their greatest potential. This requires evaluating and reevaluating the manner in which we learn.

    I think video instruction can be a great adjunct to learning. I have no doubt that people find it easier. But if we pronounce it as being better/clearer/more efficient then we insure that is what we will be handed by the content providers of the world.

    If it is truly a better means of education, we should use it. But there is no evidence that the DVD media - as a media - is the best way to learn magic. Or the most clear. For somethings, in the right hands, it might be - but it is not the panacea you make it to be.

    Again, we can argue why: part of it is the fault of the "teacher", part of it may be that we are trying to use the dvd to teach concepts for which it is not clearly efficient - but ultimately to proclaim that dvds can be more clear than a book is simply factually untrue.

    and to claim it as truth is to do a disservice to others who want to learn.
     
  16. Another problem with dvds are..

    Some of the greatest magic that we are probably every going to see has already been created and the creators are long gone so they wont produce a dvd anytime soon. So if you limit yourself to one media you will only limit yourself.
     
  17. I agree with that. There are many books with a wealth of information that you hardly see or dont see on dvds. Like for me as a card worker Essential Robert Houdin and J.N. Hofziner's Card Conjuring are great books. There is a lot of great info out there in books that is not put into dvds.

    You also cant put a lot of info on a disc. a lot of times they leave out a few things from the book. Plus dvds are expensive vs the book. Just like with books there are good ones in print and bad ones. Same goes with DVDs. I still know buddies that are burnt for buying that Magic Makers DVD with Wesley James on Expert on the card table. I stuck with the book.

    That dosent mean im discrediting DVDs either or people who use them as their primary source of learning. I like them and buy them too. But I use them to supplement my learning from books. It provides a nice change of pace.

    and finding a mentor is the best thing IMO like others stated.

    just my .02
     

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