hey guys check ou this sandwich effect tutorial of ours on youtube!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzz8bNdRFKo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzz8bNdRFKo
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Card Sandwich Performance/tutorial
- Thread starter BlueberryCards
- Start date
hmm i understand what you are saying, getting back to the deck let the spectator think that the card is still in the deck, and not already on the table, aswell its much easier to do the production then
But it's not. Adam Wilbur does the same revelation in hand not on the deck. Really need to credit the person who created that slight, which is not you. Also there is no reason for them to think their selection (which should be signed) is between the two cards. Again not being chased so no need to run. Look at Grace by Babel. He leave the two card on the table, which he shows as two, and then later picks them up to show there is now a card there. Third, why expose these slights that you did not create?
We did not learn this revelation from Adam Wilbur. However if this was invented by him, we will credit him as soon as possible. You seem to be a bit negative about our video's, why? We just started this channel 1 week ago and still have a lot to learn. Do you think we expose too much on YouTube?
It wasn't invented by him. I was using him as an example of someone who does a revaluation like your but not on the deck. Bebel does an effect where two cards are put face up on the table and then a card is selected lost in the deck and then shows up between the two cards that were laying on the table. He then does it twice more with the same car. Another example of someone not going back to the deck.
The reason I seem negative is because you are exposing methods that are not yours. You are not crediting those who created the slights. You are exposing slights that are not yours. Not doing proper research on your effects. Exposing magic you did not create. Oh and exposing magic on Youtube that is not yours to expose.
Doing research on these effect is difficult. I learn most of my tricks and moves from other magicians and video's. Not from the original books and such, so I honestly do not have any idea which of my moves are made up by myself and which are created by someone else. We have uploaded 3 video's so far, and do not know anyone to credit. So if we expose magic that is not ours to expose, we do not do it on purpose.
I think. Now I am not absoulutly sure but I think Krab is saying "YOU ARE EXPOSING MAGIC ON YOU TUBE"
Maybe you shuld read this ---> http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?23297-Help-Us-Stop-Magic-Piracy
Maybe you shuld read this ---> http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?23297-Help-Us-Stop-Magic-Piracy
I think part of the problem when it comes to not being able to credit ect comes from a lack of experience. I get the sense that a lot of younger guys feel the need to be a creator is greater than being a performer which I think they feel will get the, 'noticed' quicker. Therefore they over look what we would call the classics, in terms of both tricks and books, only concentrating on whats new, current and cool which in terms seriously hinders your knowledge of the craft. For example in your sandwich effect you use the term a palming technique, all your doing is a modified side steal. Now my point is if you had built up your foundations better, you would know there are techniques for a side steal with top cover (Ammar's book comes to mind) that would fit your trick perfectly and would make the routine a lot smoother and more logical.
I know I am rambling a bit but I hope this makes sense. Basically I'm trying to say walk before you run. If you want to create that's all well and good I'm not saying don't do that, but always think twice about putting in the public domain, for one as a magician you shouldn't just put all your material out there for anyone to have, you should have a pride of ownership over some of your routines and two at the risk of exposing something that isn't yours. Just spend time learning more, reading more, expanding your knowledge of magic and I'm sure you will find this more worthwhile at the moment than trying to be a creator.
I know I am rambling a bit but I hope this makes sense. Basically I'm trying to say walk before you run. If you want to create that's all well and good I'm not saying don't do that, but always think twice about putting in the public domain, for one as a magician you shouldn't just put all your material out there for anyone to have, you should have a pride of ownership over some of your routines and two at the risk of exposing something that isn't yours. Just spend time learning more, reading more, expanding your knowledge of magic and I'm sure you will find this more worthwhile at the moment than trying to be a creator.
It's not hard to credit people. Look at Tom Stone's book. He has pages of credits. The fact you can get the big tarbell book for less than $30 as a PDF and with Dover selling many classic basic magic books for $15 or less. You have great places like http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/MagicPedia_Main_Page and http://conjuringarts.org/ it just comes down to spending a bit of time looking things up.
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I spent years at college. I had to spend long sessions in the library watching, researching and writing about obscure films, domestic and foreign. You guys are making a couple of amateurish tutorials on YouTube. You can spend 15 minutes combing through a couple of books. Quit making excuses, quit being lazy, just do the damn work.
Christ, everybody wants to be YouTube famous, but none of them want to take the time to be good at anything.
Christ, everybody wants to be YouTube famous, but none of them want to take the time to be good at anything.
I don't understand what you are trying to say Steerpike, and frankly I don't care to decode it, because I don't see any value that it adds to this conversation. Razvh, I like the effect, and the video was well made. A few things I noticed from the video, and the responses of this post are that one, I agree with Krab 1 in the fact that it isn't necessary to bring the cards back to the deck after setting them down. Not for the spectators sake (A lot of magicians will say you need to validate this, and that, and blah blah blah with certain actions. Which can be something to think about, but only in extreme cases. For the most part, the fact that your the magician, and your spectator doesn't know what the outcome is supposed to be, justifies the moves. "Justifying the action" is just something that magicians care about. Spectators don't know the difference.) Anyways, what I mean is, for the performers sake. After bringing the cards back to the deck, it makes the palm an unnecessary sleight. You could just do the standard sandwich load from there, which is easier and cleaner. Also, along the lines of credit giving. It is hard to credit something you have never seen before, and also hard to credit something, when you haven't the slightest clue how to find it. In my opinion, if you don't know it wasn't your own idea, just go back and credit the people after find out. No harm. You can say do your research, but that doesn't take 15 minutes like some people have said, ehem..., and you may not come up with anything after hours of investment, so I don't see think it's something to get upset over, more of just something someone should calmly point out to you, and something you could go back and fix. Hope this helps.
- Billy
- Billy
He is saying the same thing I'm saying. People need to stop putting out effects that are not theirs and say "well it is hard to look stuff up." It is very much of value. Also No don't go back and credit in an exposure video. Take it down. It should have never been up in the first place.
It's not hard to credit. Guys who create for a living credit all the time. Tom Stone gave credits to everyone in his book. If you have a good solid foundation in magic and you own something than a hard drive full of downloads, then you have sources to look things up. 99% of the time you can find it in just a few books. Book me and Steer and Craig and a few others list all the time that all magicians should own. If you own The big Tarbell Book by Tarbell. Royal Road to Card Magic, by Hugard & Braue. Modern Coin Magic by Bobo. Abbott's Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks by James. Mark Wilson's Complete Course in Magic Amateur Magician's Handbook by Hay you will have about to look up 85% to 90% of basic effects and moves. But now everyone is trying to be internet famous. They are not willing to put in the work. Just listen to Garrett Thomas and Mathieu Bich talk about this very thing.
[video=youtube;zWiF-SAp6G8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWiF-SAp6G8[/video]
That's bull-crap. Creativity builds upon the foundation of other techniques, and effects. If everything had to be original, and could only be taught by those who created it, Magic as an art wouldn't exist. Stop trying to kill it.
Okay I'm going to type slow so you can understand this. He is exposing magic that he did not create. He is putting things out there as original that are not. The video I linked talked about how you go about creating magic building off of someone else work. I'm not killing magic I'm trying to save it. Lonnie Chevrie has had effects he created lifted from him. Not credited to him and them people accuse him of stealing the effect. The guy who invented the bill switch was accused of performing it wrong because he wasn't in the circle of people who had lifted his work. You can build on something else but don;t say it is totally original and yours when you don't take time to look up the moves and to see if it is original. Put in the leg work.
In the video Mathieu talks about Ellusionist releasing an effect that is Tiny Plunger with out the plunger and claiming it as an original effect. The video starts off with a play on what is currently going on with kids on youtube. Kids think because they use a different color deck or they hold the card in a different spot it is new and original. There is an effect on the wire that is being sold that is the cover art for a self working magic book. All that person did was use hair bands and released it as original when it't not. Sure he gave credit to JB Bobo but it wasn't different enough to warrant a release. What is happening now is working magicians are not sharing effects with the magic community at large. We are holding on to our really good stuff making sure we are not letting other magicians see the. We are just sick of seeing really strong magic being exposed on youtube by some 12 year old with a webcam. We are tired of seeing something we used for years being lifted whole sell and not getting credit for our work. I'll leave you with a quote from the great Ricky Jay...
"A guy comes up and starts telling me he's a fan," he recalls. "I say thank you, that's nice to hear. He says he used to see me perform in Boulder, Colorado. That's nice, too, I say. Then he starts talking about this wonderful piece I did with a mechanical monkey, really one of the most bizarre routines I ever worked out, and I thank him, and he says, `Yeah, I get a tremendous response when I do that. Audiences just love it.' And I say, `Let me ask you something. Suppose I invite you over to my house for dinner. We have a pleasant meal, we talk about magic, it's an enjoyable evening. Then, as you're about to leave, you walk into my living room and you pick up my television and walk out with it. You steal my television set. Would you do that?' He says, `Of course not.' And I say, `But you already did.' He says, `What are you talking about?' I say, `You stole my television!' He says, `How can you say that? I've never even been to your house.' This guy doesn't even know what a metaphor is. People ask me why I don't do lectures at magic conventions, and I say, `Because I'm still learning.' Meanwhile, you've got people who have been doing magic for ten months and they are actually out there pontificating. It's absurd."
this was from Secrets of the Magus
from the New Yorker Magazine 1993
by Mark Singer