Death to the Double Undercut :: Review

Apr 28, 2008
596
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Alright, let's see here... To be honest, I still don't see the problem if the original sybil were to be taught - or other unoriginal moves - of course many people know it, but that's not the point, I'd have absolutely no problem not buying it and leaving it to the people who don't know it to buy it. It's only like the predecessor to 1 bazillion cuts so it's important for a beginning flourisher, and for some, it would be an incredible download.

I also disagree with the need for any effect involving the double lift to necessarily have a different/unique handing/purpose for the double. There's a reason why the double, the classic pass, and other such moves, have been around as long as they have, and it's because they work. They may be unoriginal, the next DL you replace back onto your deck may be the same one used decades ago, but it works, and honestly, I don't see a problem with this either. Whatever works for the target audience. There's no need to force a reworking of everything for it to be accepted in the magic community - especially as a part of an effect, but even a basic DL one on one - that has its purpose too, and though it may not be yours, it's still a purpose that satisfies others. To some extent, the need to have moves reworked comes from our need as magicians - honestly, I don't believe laymen care if they never find out because it's convincing. Their needs come first, so if classic works, classic's good, and if beginners are the target audience, teach the classics that work, by all means a normal DL if necessarily, by all means, for flourishing, a sybil.



In hindsight, I accept your point about the comparison, it was exaggerated and I apologise/withdraw it. Nonetheless, the point about teaching still stands - beginners need to learn and if a video like this is made with good teaching, I don't see the problem, it's aimed at beginners, and it's better than the thousands on YouTube.



As for the last part, I can understand where you're coming from. I read the other person's post, and I did not feel that it came off the way you understood it, and hence I immediately felt it was unjustified. Nonetheless, again, I do understand where/why that came from.

I don't entirely agree with you but i'm going to leave this for a few reasons.

It's getting exhausting typing out the same things again and again and the discussion is going round in circles.

We have different points of view and we aren't going to change, we could both keep repeating our opinions forever and it wouldn't do anything.

As i'm continuously repeating myself it's starting to look like I have a massive problem with T11 and i'm angered by all this etc when really it's just incredibly irritating and in my opinion unethical.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
May 19, 2008
448
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manchester
Unlike many other people, I have never pushed the issue of this hurting beginners (I have mentioned it but it's certainly not whats bothereing me).

I don't want to argue, I want to discuss the issue. I have not made fun of anyone.

As for me having anything better to do... it's a Sunday, I can't go anywhere because everywhere is closed, i'm waiting for exam results so i'm not at college, it's freezing outside and just about all my friends are on holiday, i've hurt my hand so I can't play guitar or piano so, no... I have nothing better to do.

most of my post wasn't for you (you seem to actually discuss it),

I dont want to argue either, thats why im (trying) not to take sides so much,

okay, I let you off, you havnt got anything better to do (lol).
 
Sep 1, 2007
112
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Everyone on this thread bashing the videos obviously don't understand the concept of targeting different audiences. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Well stated. It's pretty much a given that every 1-on-1 will not be for every performer. I personally didn't buy this 1-on-1, but that doesn't mean that it isn't worth anything to other people out there. I think that it has it's place and time to be used, and that someone who bought it will use it. So, to reiterate the above point, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Remember, there's always next week, which isn't really that long of a wait in the grand scheme of things (unless of course you spend the entire week complaining about the previous weeks material...)

:)
 
I think the basic idea that Squ!rrel and others are espousing here is that because the components of Death to the Double Undercut are public domain Theory11 doesn't have the right to sell the moves, as if Joel came up with the moves himself. However, it is not the idea that you are paying $5 for, it's Joel's teaching (which I hear is pretty clear and concise). Given that the value of the teaching of the moves on this 1-on-1 is likely far, far better than anything on YouTube, the value might be justifiable; that is to be decided by people (beginners) who buy the product.
 
After reading this thread I am THIS close to leaving theory11, not because of the content or artists (you guys are great) but because of you guys on the forums who only seem to come online to insult other people. Seriously guys, if you've got nothing good to say, don't say anything, not the other way round. This thread is pointless and I'm wondering why it's still open.
Josh T
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mar 2, 2008
1
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Ohio
My question is, how did five pages of posts go by without anybody noticing that each person who was talking about the price was giving the wrong price? Go to the 1-on-1 section. Death to the Double Undercut is only $2.95 not $5 as previously stated by just about everyone in this thread.

I downloaded it even though I already knew the swivel cut and lots of other cuts and controls. Another way to present the same idea as far as controls usually doesn't hurt. Unless it's another sybil that looks like the 238949273402938425927 ones that are out there. :p
 
My question is, how did five pages of posts go by without anybody noticing that each person who was talking about the price was giving the wrong price? Go to the 1-on-1 section. Death to the Double Undercut is only $2.95 not $5 as previously stated by just about everyone in this thread.

I downloaded it even though I already knew the swivel cut and lots of other cuts and controls. Another way to present the same idea as far as controls usually doesn't hurt. Unless it's another sybil that looks like the 238949273402938425927 ones that are out there. :p

They changed the price.
 
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