theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards

Ellusionist or Theory11?

Status
Not open for further replies.
magicmagicmagic said:
So I guess your pushing 7 months? I've been doing this for YEARS... frankly I think Ellusionist is a fine shop and dont see much difference between E and T11... I know I'm not the only one.
Click to expand...


Agreed, there are many similarites between E and T11, but the significant difference is T11 having higher quality products, not completely over pricing everything, and not having Nazi forums.

I like Penguin the best because of the forums and prices, but I have nothing against T11. I really like it here also. You guys have a sense of humor and very friendly people here.

I just really hate E though. With there super super hyped products feeding you lies on the page. With taking old sources of learning and turning them into to new over priced Dvd's*cough* HOW TO DO STREET MAGIC*cough*, and also there new rip-off called " stained sack.. I mean skin" It's just weak.

Freakin Nazi's tryin to do magic. Calling themselves " Ellusionist" now.
 
JackOSpadesNik said:
Agreed, there are many similarites between E and T11, but the significant difference is T11 having higher quality products, not completely over pricing everything, and not having Nazi forums.

I like Penguin the best because of the forums and prices, but I have nothing against T11. I really like it here also. You guys have a sense of humor and very friendly people here.

I just really hate E though. With there super super hyped products feeding you lies on the page. With taking old sources of learning and turning them into to new over priced Dvd's*cough* HOW TO DO STREET MAGIC*cough*, and also there new rip-off called " stained sack.. I mean skin" It's just weak.

Freakin Nazi's tryin to do magic. Calling themselves " Ellusionist" now.
Click to expand...

.....o......k.......

Wow man, way to judge Stained Skin when it hasn't even been released yet. Nice...

It's obvious that your opinion is based on something else besides quality because it's very apparent that no matter what E releases, you'll still find a way to down on it. Big things our coming E's way, and just so you know, they haven't been hyping these things one bit. Oh yeah, and do you think that Factory Sealed and Bullet will be weak? Do think that the Ultra Gaff will be weak? Oh wait, of course YOU will, but others who do not have such personal hatred towards E will not. And that's because they'll base their opinions on the things that matter, not what ever previous problems they've had.

Zeus
 
Zeus375 said:
.....o......k.......

Wow man, way to judge Stained Skin when it hasn't even been released yet. Nice...

It's obvious that your opinion is based on something else besides quality because it's very apparent that no matter what E releases, you'll still find a way to down on it. Big things our coming E's way, and just so you know, they haven't been hyping these things one bit. Oh yeah, and do you think that Factory Sealed and Bullet will be weak? Do think that the Ultra Gaff will be weak? Oh wait, of course YOU will, but others who do not have such personal hatred towards E will not. And that's because they'll base their opinions on the things that matter, not what ever previous problems they've had.

Zeus
Click to expand...

Actually no. I'm looking forward to the new CIB's and want to eventually get it if it gets good reviews. The thing that irritates me about E is there over priced Dvd's which take simple tricks and are priced high.

Almost everything in How to Do street Magic is in MWCCIM. E just trys to make it look new and cool. I'm not saying all there products are bad. I thought the Rev. CV is decent.

Don't get me started on why I don't like Stained Skin. Also, are you allowed to give a negative review on E's products without getting banned? They don't have a sense of humor. If I made a T11 spoof, people probably wouldn't mind or take it too seriously.

If I made an E spoof.. BANNED!! AUTOMATICALLY!!!!!

Why are you such a fan of E. Everything Brad has made has been done before for cheaper and with a lot more info. Go ahead and buy the Dvd's which are $30-$40 each instead of picking up the RRTCM and getting it all in one book.

Go ahead and buy your tenkai palm download for $13 freakin dollars.

Also your 2 card monte for $20 which you can get elsewhere a lot cheaper and with a better deal.

Think about it. See ya later.
 
I'm amazed that people keep saying E's dvds are overpriced, when most of their single-trick dvds are priced so close to the same as T11's.

And how is Brad Christian a n00b? He's been doing magic almost as long as some members of the T11 team have been alive (at least I think that's right. . . at least one of you guys is 25 or 30, right?).

And yeah, E's forums are more strict, but they have their reasons. They have a lot of non-English-speakers on their forums, and they try to keep web-slang down to make sure those people understand. They keep profanity off their forums so they don't offend anyone. I sincerely hope everyone here is mature enough not to choose one site over another simply because you can swear on the forums (though my hopes are perhaps too high).

I've had my grumbles about E's forums, but never about their products or service. Overall I'd say E is a well-run, quality magic site with good effects, and the prices aren't bad, either. I mean, if you look at the packaged price of the Geurilla's Guide to Loops. . . $50 for three dvds taught by Justin Miller, Danny Garcia, and Nathan Kranzo? When single-effect dvds from all these magicians range in the $25-$30's? Who can complain about that? And yeah, some of their dvds are $40 or $50, but look at the amount of material taught on those dvds. . . they're all multi-effect or utility dvds that teach many tricks, sleights, etc.

All I'm saying is that neither site has my undivided loyalty because neither site should. I'm also saying that it's hard to say a site as young as T11 is better or worse than anything because they haven't proven themselves one way or the other. I think T11 has great potential. I'm going to catch flack for this, but I really don't think the 1st Ed Guardians quite measured up to what E has done with custom decks so far, but with time T11 will probably establish itself as a forefront company in the magic community, but that hasn't happened yet because it's just too early to say.
 
Let me Clear My throat...

Ellusionist
Greedy when It comes to tricks...
Bad service..
Someone bought a Fanning powder and they did not like the scene
when there package got there...
Most of the tricks are not original..
Dont have a media section like T11(The media section is better because you dont need to post a youtube link)
Expensive Website to buy from.
People at E are very Disrespectful.."E-Clones"-Alvin Martinez

T11

wonderful shiipping..
Great set of cards
To start of the release of the website,Wonderful Effects...
Contest in the beggining...
1-on-1 section
great forum help..
best magicians in the world..right here in this website...
 
TPA said:
Let me Clear My throat...

Ellusionist
Greedy when It comes to tricks...
Bad service..
Someone bought a Fanning powder and they did not like the scene
when there package got there...
Most of the tricks are not original..
Dont have a media section like T11(The media section is better because you dont need to post a youtube link)
Expensive Website to buy from.
People at E are very Disrespectful.."E-Clones"-Alvin Martinez

T11

wonderful shiipping..
Great set of cards
To start of the release of the website,Wonderful Effects...
Contest in the beggining...
1-on-1 section
great forum help..
best magicians in the world..right here in this website...
Click to expand...

Let me clear my throat

Ellusionist
Greedy when it comes to tricks? Mind explaining that one? Because I didn't really get it.

Bad service? You mean for you personally, or someone you know? Every time I've had any problem (happened maybe once or twice), E was speedy in resolving the problem, and the resolution was beyond satisfactory. The only time I can remember having a problem at all was when the Ghost-version Hovercard glitch occured and I got the wrong Hovercard gimmick. E sent me the correct gimmick free of charge, and allowed me to keep the Viper gimmick I was sent the first time. The correct gimmick arrived only two or three days later, and all was well.

Most of the tricks are not original. . . oh, you mean like Distortion? Or TnR, which is probably the millionth torn and restored card routine ever invented? Or how about the wonderfully re-marketed Trilogy, which was available on E itself for a few weeks?

Don't have a media section. . . by that, I assume you mean DOES have a media section. . . it's opposite day, I guess. . . or perhaps you just missed the member media section of their forums?

Expensive. . . yeah because a single-trick dvd at E runs an average of $25 and your average single-trick at T11 costs only. . . about $25.

And who at E is disrespectful? If you're talking about their forums, I'd say I've been met with much, much more disrespect toward myself and other members on the T11 forums than E would ever even allow. Sometimes it seems like this site is completely filled with disrespectful people who post with bad/no grammar and support nothing they say. E tends to ban people like that after about three or four strikes.

I hate to just take your post apart like that, dude, but you really should support what you say.
 
StreetMage said:
Ellusionist
Greedy when it comes to tricks? Mind explaining that one? Because I didn't really get it.

Bad service? You mean for you personally, or someone you know? Every time I've had any problem (happened maybe once or twice), E was speedy in resolving the problem, and the resolution was beyond satisfactory. The only time I can remember having a problem at all was when the Ghost-version Hovercard glitch occured and I got the wrong Hovercard gimmick. E sent me the correct gimmick free of charge, and allowed me to keep the Viper gimmick I was sent the first time. The correct gimmick arrived only two or three days later, and all was well.

Most of the tricks are not original. . . oh, you mean like Distortion? Or TnR, which is probably the millionth torn and restored card routine ever invented? Or how about the wonderfully re-marketed Trilogy, which was available on E itself for a few weeks?

Don't have a media section. . . by that, I assume you mean DOES have a media section. . . it's opposite day, I guess. . . or perhaps you just missed the member media section of their forums?

Expensive. . . yeah because a single-trick dvd at E runs an average of $25 and your average single-trick at T11 costs only. . . about $25.

And who at E is disrespectful? If you're talking about their forums, I'd say I've been met with much, much more disrespect toward myself and other members on the T11 forums than E would ever even allow. Sometimes it seems like this site is completely filled with disrespectful people who post with bad/no grammar and support nothing they say. E tends to ban people like that after about three or four strikes.

I hate to just take your post apart like that, dude, but you really should support what you say.
Click to expand...

Allow me to explain some of them:

"Greedy when it comes to tricks".....E has had the tendency to just throw a product onto the market just for the sake of money. And some of them end up being pretty bad, Axis Change and maybe Warning.

"Most of the tricks are not original"......here is a qoute that should be know by everyone "THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN IN MAGIC". And about TnR, please close your mouth immediately, because it has not yet come out yet, so therefore you know nothing in totality about it, and yes it is another handling of Torn and Restored. But when has there ever being been a problem with publishing your own take on an effect? Waiting.....

"Don't have a media section".....he means the the media system here. Which by the way is only here because T11 got it from Richard.

"E is disrespectful".....yeah, they kinda are. The E forums are getting pretty strict. I could go so far as saying that they were worse than Superhandz once was.

Oh and about that "E-clones" comment. All I have to say to that is, I am glad you have now evolved into a "T11-clone".
 
First off, Distortion is not a rip-off and is original. It's a handling of the moving pips card. T11 is not claiming to have invented the moving pips card. It's an original handling of it.

E is very greedy. They don't want to make magic better. Sure every store wants to make money, but E is all about the money. Nothing else. They don't hold promotions. (Except for that stupid contest for Christmas) You have to pay shipping for each item.

TnR hasn't been released yet so you can't say anything about that. No info whatsoever. I have my opinion on Stained Skin because everyone basically knows its a way to reveal a card or though or whatever on your arm with a fake tattoo.

E is just weaksauce. If your going to say that about Distortion you might as well say that about Stigmata. Wayne didn't invent it, but it's variations on the method.

How is the trilogy not original. Did you forget D&D are part of T11? So it would make sense for there latest product to be sold here.

And please tell me why E is selling a Tenkai Palm for $13. Also 2 card monte for $20. and also making a whole Dvd about the 2 card monte is just ridiculous.

If E had hold of the 4for4 switch, Schwing, 3 fry

Schwing and the 4for4 switch would be individual dvd's for $24.95 each.

And 3 fry for about $18.
 
JackOSpadesNik said:
Agreed, there are many similarites between E and T11, but the significant difference is T11 having higher quality products, not completely over pricing everything, and not having Nazi forums.
Freakin Nazi's tryin to do magic. Calling themselves " Ellusionist" now.
Click to expand...


Wow... hold it buddy.
I know you guys tend to use that word like Smurfes use theirs...
But there is absolutly NO NEED to bring germanys political past into this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
i really like ellusionist but i would have to say this site is amazing i like it beter already although e has a ton of nice products your guys are more visual you let people see what happens in your tricks and i love that keep up the good work theory 11!!! by the way i love the way you guys have set up your website and are all quick to answer questions where on e you relly on other people and here you have both but part comes from the expert wether its aaron fisher , wayne houchin, lee ahser or the rest of the staff. the poit is you guys rock and bring a new meaning to the word "magic"!
cheers,
relicman
 
BlueBackedBikes said:
That would mean he's been into magic for more than 6 months.
Click to expand...

honestly I don't listen to peoples opinion from when there 8.
Just because they cant comprehend anything.

I have 3 eight year old cousins...I know ...they wont understand.




also...
Eight years old...Expirence?...Really ...I don't think so.
 
Ray said:
Wow... hold it buddy.
I know you guys tend to use that word like Smurfes use theirs...
But there is absolutly NO NEED to bring germanys political past into this.
Click to expand...


If you were seriously offended I apoligize. Just a joke.

I still stand by what I said.

Let me make it nicer. Have you ever read animal farm by George Orwell?

Brad Christian is Napoleon and the forums are run by the pigs.

We will bring Russia's past into this if not Germany.
 
Cardmagic12345 said:
honestly I don't listen to peoples opinion from when there 8.
Just because they cant comprehend anything.

I have 3 eight year old cousins...I know ...they wont understand.

also...
Eight years old...Expirence?...Really ...I don't think so.
Click to expand...
I am very much confused. I don't remember seeing anywhere in the original quote that mentioned people who have been in to magic for more than 6 months that are more than 8 years old?
AlexFjellbergSwerdlowe said:
Everyone dislikes Ellusionist... Find one person who has been in to magic for more than 6 months, who likes ellusionist. It would be tough...
Click to expand...
Ah, I was right. Nothing of that mention. I thought I was going crazy.
 
JackOSpadesNik said:
Also, are you allowed to give a negative review on E's products without getting banned? They don't have a sense of humor. If I made a T11 spoof, people probably wouldn't mind or take it too seriously.

If I made an E spoof.. BANNED!! AUTOMATICALLY!!!!!
Click to expand...

Your ignorance is refreshing...no, wait...no its not.

Negative reviews are always welcome on E as long as there is rational reasons offered for it. If you spend any time there, then you know that. I have a feeling, a strong feeling, that you used to be a member of E and that you were banned for being who you are...now you will go out of your way to down E at any opportunity. That's OK, you can bray into the night all you want.

Guys, I see some very ignorant posting in this thread, and I see some very enlightened posting. T11 and Ellusionist will each make it on their own merits and there is no need to try to tear either of them down. Do I agree with how this site came into existence? No. However, I am over it and can only hope that T11 lives up to their pre-hype and becomes a community that unites magicians and produces magic that does not end up in your bottom drawer next to Jonathan's Teletubbies. I guess my point is that each site needs to be judged on what they do on a daily basis. I have no reason to condemn T11 since the people who run it seem to be doing their best to make it the best it can be.

RJ
 
Status
Not open for further replies.