Ethics and Methods

Feb 1, 2017
229
235
A previous thread on if Zach King should be considered a magician or not got me thinking. As well as a thread on Criss Angel. Besides the fact Zach King doesn't claim to be a magician, what makes him not a magician? Camera tricks? So what does that make Criss Angel?

What about stooges or pre-show? Are those methods considered magical?

At the end of the day does the method even matter when it comes to producing a desired effect? Does a spectator really care how you fooled them? Wouldn't they be just as disappointed in the revelation that a stooge was used versus if you used a double lift? So why are these 'cheat' methods so frowned upon?
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
I think camera tricks are not magic because the effect can't be replicated live. I guess that goes for a lot of the stuff posted on the internet where you have angle issues too. I have no problem with using a confederate (someone in the audience who helps you out but who isn't the spectator) because the rest of the audience is fooled. I also don't have a problem using dual reality, where the person assisting you perceives a different effect than the rest of the audience. That said, I have no problem with pre-show work which essentially relies in part of dual reality. I don't have problems with instant stooges -- there is a great effect in practical mental magic where a note on a pocket watch says - "Play along, set the watch to 11:45."

However, I do have a problem with the person who comes up on stage being a plant. I could do a really great hands off, ACAAN using a stooge or a great mind reading effect. I really have a problem where the whole audience is made up of stooges (ignore the platforms in the pool or ignore the big crane and cables -- they will be edited out.).

The difference is replicability. The effect with the plant or the entire stooge audience can't be replicated. We move from televising magic - which is a live performance art - to a made for television special.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,877
2,945
What if an entire group of people conspire to create an incredibly magical moment for one person, David? I think this was actually mentioned in one of the books I read.

Zach King is not a magician because he cannot replicate any of his videos live. He never calls himself a magician, he points out it's all video editing, etc etc. Criss Angel is a magician because he actually can do a lot of the stuff live - I'd say the vast majority of it. He did run a successful off Broadway show for 2 years, and is currently doing a live illusion show. The fact that he clearly used editing in his TV show, I think, speaks more to the demands of trying to do a show that aired that often than his skills at legerdemain.

I am actually all for any method that creates a magical experience for its intended audience, even if that audience is only one person and it takes a team of actors to pull it off. Derren Brown has changed people's lives doing that.
 
Before I answer your question, and completely disagree with R1.... which is a very rare case indeed, let me ask you to define "What is magic?"

Magic is NOT the trick.

Let that sink in.

Magic...

Is...

Not...

The...

Trick!

Magic, or what people will associate as magic, is the experience in totality that they have when watching you perform. Magic is how their brain reconstructs the multitude of different stimulus's into a coherent format that it can comprehend. Magic is the laymans answer to the method used to accomplish something that they can not readily explain in any other way.

Therefore I disagree with R1. Camera tricks can be magic. Provided they are perceived to be that way.
 

RealityOne

Elite Member
Nov 1, 2009
3,744
4,076
New Jersey
"What is magic?"

Magic is NOT the trick.

Magic, or what people will associate as magic, is the experience in totality that they have when watching you perform. Magic is how their brain reconstructs the multitude of different stimulus's into a coherent format that it can comprehend.

I agree that magic is not the trick. I agree magic is the comprehension that what you have seen is impossible.

Magic is the laymans answer to the method used to accomplish something that they can not readily explain in any other way.

However, with a video of a performance, camera tricks become a possible explanation and then there is no magic.

Therefore I disagree with R1. Camera tricks can be magic. Provided they are perceived to be that way.

To me, magic is a live performing art and video is there to capture what is done live. Otherwise, it becomes a demonstration of special effects.

I understand your point, but we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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