Help With Choosing Books

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by mehar, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. You clearly didn't read what I said. The reason I learn things so quickly is because I spend a good five hours a day on it. I didn't say that I learn it in an hour and then do a ****ty job. I said learn it quickly, and a good 50 hours is quickly for me. I never said that I'm the best, or better than anyone else. I simply said that I'm a fast learner and can go through stuff and master it pretty quickly. When did I say that I underestimated 95% of the community?!

    ALL I AM SAYING IS THIS: I am going to ask my cousin what she can get for a discount. I will then run it through to you guys. Then I will see what you guys think about the selection. I will probably get a few books at a time because I am a fast learner and have the time to learn it. I am not going out there and being an amateur, that's why I get shows and referrals Sabor.
     
  2. #22 saborfang17, Oct 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2010
    Then run it by her and see what she can get for a discount, assuming she can on any of those. They're not the typical books on magic you find in a library or bookstore. Clearly you didn't read what I said either. If you spend 5 hours a day on it, you're either overpracticing a move or you think the more practice = the better magician. More then 20 minutes of practice on a move a day is detrimental to learning, and each time you reach a plateau you should rest for a day or two. And most of those books have tons of presentational skills and theory in them. That's not stuff you can get overnight. I wish it were that way, or I'd be decent in my eyes.

    Don't start ripping on me with the attitude. I politely stated I thought you were being cocky and even through the internet, the underlying rage and accusations is visible.

    Oh, and learning and mastering are two very different things. I can do a center deal, I've been practicing for about 2 weeks. I've learned how to do a center deal. I'm atleast 10 years off from mastering it.

    Chillax bro, chillax.

    EDIT: This is what Justin Miller had to say about you and mastering material fast..

    [19:25] jm: im so wearly of anyone who says they master stuff quickly
    [19:26] jm: its not about mastering its about learing the foundations and using that as a stepping pnt
    [19:27] jm: i would never say io MASTERED anything becuae then you block yourself off from learning

    Was talking to him in The Magic Session and that's what he had to say, copied and pasted word for word.
     
  3. Mehar, I know you have an enthusiasm for learning, but you have WAY too many books on your list. It would take an entire lifetime to study and perfect the moves from Expert at the Card Table alone..

    What I'm saying is that do not overwhelm yourself.

    The reason being is because you are so enthralled in learning so much at one time that you might skim over the most amazing pieces of magic and never give it the light of day. Just choose only a few that would suit you the most and do not buy magic for quite a while. You will already be pleased with everything contained in Erdnase, and some other books you listed. Take your time and practice, study, and learn. Try to learn everything as precise as possible if you want it exact, or if you find that another method suits you, then by all means use your method.

    If you are getting Erdnase, go for the Pocket Erdnase or any print that isn't Dover edition. As well with getting Erdnase, after that if you still want to study it more in depth get Revelation by Dai Vernon or The Annotated Erdnase by Darwin Ortiz.

    On another point, if Erdnase isn't your cup of tea, I heard the Card Magic of LePaul is yet another fantastic book. I need to slap myself in the face for not getting it yet, however it is on my list of books to get! :)

    So to wrap this up, simply pick a few books (2-4) that interest you the most. Study them, learn from them, and practice. You will not need to buy more magic afterwards; I guarantee it. The material in all of the books you get could last you a lifetime. Think about that. Either spend your lifetime learning the moves correctly, or spend a week on one move and suck at it.

    -Casey
     
  4. Sorry for using the word ''mastered.'' Let me restate that and say ''do it very well and have small room for improvement.'' I definitely do not think that practice = better magician. I think that practice = better handling for sleights. I never said I practice for five hours straight.. I practice for five hours over the course of the 15 hours I'm awake.

    Casey, I know it's a lot that's why I wanted to cut off a buncha books.. thanks for your input! My teacher has a few of these, so I think I'll borrow some of them from him. He said once I'm done learning my hot shot cut, retention vanish, and reading my book by henning helms, then I can borrow strong magic from him. He said that if I like the book, I should buy it and then re-read it sometime later.
     
  5. Practice does make you a better magician Mehar. When you practice tricks or sleights in general, you learn more about the trick or move each time you do it. By going through this process you find better methods, cut the scrap that doesn't need to be there, and really improve the look of the trick or move. This makes you a better magician by eliminating the unnecessary sleights and getting straight to the point. You sound quite arrogant when you say "do it very well and have small room for improvement." Even the BEST MAGICIANS always have room for improvement. You can't get magic down perfectly, because there is no perfect way to do it. It's all on your practice and effort that makes the move. You definitely need improvement. Not trying to be harsh, but I doubt your Erdnase color change or ACR (for example) is down perfect yet. You always need to improve without a doubt. When you get into that attitude you're inviting your own self to fail more. If you think you have it perfect all the time and you don't need to practice, you will eventually fail and that is not what you should do. Do the exact opposite and practice a move or trick LONGER than what you already do. You would be surprised to see the difference the amount of practice can make!

    I really want you to consider taking this information because I used to be in your situation. I thought I was really good about 1 year ago. Now that I look back on it, I sucked so badly. I realized that practicing a sleight or trick longer and doing what I just stated above has really helped me out on my road in magic. Do what I didn't do, and PRACTICE MORE.

    -Casey
     
  6. I've got an interesting post you might want to read. Before you click on the link, make sure you fully understand what you're saying and see if you can imagine how it comes across. Then FULLY read this post and understand the direction from which the post was written.

    Once you've read that link, read what I've stated beneath it.

    Click me



    Like I said, cocky. You STILL come across STRONGLY as if in a short time you can master every sleight you learn. I use the word master loosely, so you can interpret it as "get it down very well in a short time with very little room for improvement", if you will.
     
  7. im not saying i'm the best you guys!! I'm just saying that I'm pretty good at it! No hatin'.
     
  8. #28 Sam Hindrichs, Oct 15, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2010
    Sorry for jumping in late but this is what I think about this whole thread. First of all, books on theory are not like a book on sleights. You can not master theory by reading it and practicing it in your bedroom in front of a mirror. You have to go out and perform it, much like Cold Reading. As far as theory goes you can read the same book 5 times and learn something new from it every time you read it.

    Next, I would not buy more than 2 books at a time. If you buy too many you will over load yourself and confuse what you are reading with other books you are reading. Take one book and study it over the course of a few months.

    You asked for books on theory, so, not knowing anything about the book, would you buy Erdnase when you are wanting books on theory. You can get Erdnase for free (legally) from just about every magic site out there. So why waste the money until you know whether you will like it or not. Erdnase is not for everyone. I say download the Erdnase ebook and read through it first before buying it.

    Now on to books on theory.

    From the list you gave I would go for Designing Miracles (first) and Strong Magic (second). But. Strong Magic is the type of book that you should seriously study only if you are planning on being a serious working magician, not a kid doing magic for friends and family. Now, that being said, I am not saying you only perform for friends and family or are not planning on being a "worker". I am only saying if you are not planning on working don't waste your time with Strong Magic.

    Designing Miracles on the other hand I believe is an amazing book on theory that EVERY magician that plans on creating his own effects should read. It covers everything you could possibly imagine. I would buy this book first.

    One problem you are going to come across with reading all these books on theory is a very BIG problem. They are all theory on magic according to the person that wrote the book. That is a big reason why some people don't like the Fitzkee Trilogy. They don't like his theories on magic. So, what I am trying to say is reading a ton of theory books might not be best for you. Stay with one author at a time because they might contradict each other.

    WHERE IN THE EFF ARE YOU GETTING YOUR PRICES!?

    I bought both Designing Miracles and Strong Magic at the same time for a little over $60 for both books together. Before you buy anything, I would do a little more shopping around than the quick Google search you did to get your prices. What I would do is go to http://murphysmagiccommunity.com/profiles/friend/listFeatured and shop around in those shops for the best deal. Naturally, I am going to suggest going to ExoMagic. You will get the best deal from them by far, but their shop is down for the time being.

    I am putting together a bar and restaurant routine so I am looking for theory on Bar and Restaurant magic. I bought Tangled Web by Eric Mead a week ago and it seems to be a pretty good book on both effects and theory. It covers walk around and bar magic. It is written more as a conversational book and not as a teaching manual which makes the read go that much more smooth. I am also planning on buying David Stone's book Close Up The Real Secrets of Magic. I understand it is full of theory on getting jobs as a restaurant magician.

    So, what I am saying is :

    Decide whether you are going to be a worker or just performer.

    Shop around before you buy anything.

    If you are going to be a worker, figure out what type of magic you want to perform and buy your books accordingly.

    Sorry for the rant,

    Sam
     
  9. @ Unknownnagician93. You constantly recommend EATCT, but can you entertain a crowd?
     
  10. Most guys are recommending books on theory or tricks and sleights. Let's shift this discussion. Consider buying material on character building and scripting. Why? Because you will not learn that from Erdnase.
     
  11. Very well said. How fast you can learn your sleights is completely irrelevant.
     
  12. Hey Sam!

    Don't be sorry for the rant, it was a good one! I am deciding to be a semi-professional magician (student right now) and I am doing close-up walkaround magic shows right now. As of now, I'm focusing on card magic mainly, but I'm starting to learn coin magic. My teacher just gave me one of his many ravens yesterday, so I'm looking forward to incorporating that into my retention vanish! He also does have quite a few books so I'm going to look at his library and ask him which books I can borrow. He said that I should finish my shows and a few of my current moves I'm working on (retention vanish, coins across, hot shot cut) and finish reading my current books (one on theory by henning helms, the other on magic history [magic 1400's-1950's]) then I can borrow Strong Magic from him. I had a lesson with him last Wednesday and he said how his ex-teacher overflowed him with so much info that he used to get screwed over, and that he wants to make sure I have the current things down, then I can move onto new things.

    Thanks Sam!
     
  13. Thou shalt not provoketh unknownmagician.
     
  14. Point made. Are there any intelligent people here?
     
  15. Erdnase is great for learning technique, and many different sleights along with cheating people out of their hard-earned money. Of course he's not going into any character building, why would he?!

    That said, Erdnase is not the way to go in terms of scripting and theory. Dan Harlan has an amazing little packet called "More than Magic" that goes over scripting, routining, character, and the business side of magic. 'Absolute Magic' made me rethink everything I "thought" I knew about character. 'Seriously Silly' showed me how to connect with children and their parents.

    Lastly, Erdnase showed me how to take your money, and also throw in some useful stuff under the title 'Legerdemain'.
     

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