The Magician Online

The Magician Online is a live, interactive, online experience - in the comfort of your own home. Starring Dan White. As seen by Ashton Kutcher, Ariana Grande, Chris Rock, James Corden, Jessica Alba, and President Clinton.

See details

Justin Miller on Piracy

Sep 1, 2007
1,393
7
36
Belgrade, Serbia
Nice one that is kinda funny.
No one ever said that. But if you think that it does not affect us creators you are horribly misinformed.
Actually, Dee said it.... And so did a lot of other famous magicians. Really RICH magicians.
And really? Your going to take the gangsta approach with me?
What? huh? didn't think so.
Really...
Nice way to talk with your current and future customers, who actually pay for your stuff. [sarcasm] That will not make mi torrent [/sarcasm]

Now here is my real problem with you toby. Your post shows an incredible amount of disrespect for magic as an ART and the creators who create it...the ARTIST themselves. Your response as a fellow magician should not be "well does it hurt you no, then shut up" which is really what you said to me but more in an intimidating way, it should be "lets work together on fixing or find a way to fix this problem" If your going to stay in this art and pursue it then please respect magic and its creators that bust their asses trying to bring you solid, practical, memorable magic. Or get out and find something else to waste your time.

JM
Wow wow wow, easy there justin. You made a lot of assumptions, and saw a lot of things that aren't there. I never showed disrespect to the magic ART, I showed disrespect to the magicians who are crying about torrents and how they will be poor because of it. And then, you see them in their expensive houses, with their insane collection of most expensive items and cards and cars and all that. All I said was that torrents will not make you poor nor hungry. Do they affect you? Yes. Do they affect you THAT MUCH? No.

You said that you made a lot of DVDs and notes, and that almost all of it was torrented? Well, you have to be really stupid to continue to release products, if the first one that you did, made you less money than you spend. But since you have a lot of products, I guess you are making good money out from it.

And listen to what other have said. Torrent actually helped your popularity and popularity of magic also. And no, you would not sell those 25000 DVDs that they downloaded through torrents.
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,638
469
44
Louisville, OH
Toby, I think you are ok in expressing your opinion but at least have a little respect towards others.

"Well, you have to be really stupid to continue to release products, if the first one that you did, made you less money than you spend."

Some magicians may have a TON of money and are driving expensive cars, etc. I don't think this is Justin's case. I believe he is a hard working middle class guy who is doing a heck of a job sharing his expertise in our art of magic. I'm sure it would burn me as well if a lot of my material was getting torrented. I do think the torrents help the popularity though some what so it is a bit of weird situation how it works.

I think your tone is what is making some members upset and rubs people the wrong way. I realize that Justin said a few things as well.

Can we seriously close this thread now so people will quit bashing one another?
 
Can we seriously close this thread now so people will quit bashing one another?

No reason to close anything. Sure, some things have been said but I would say that the best thing would be to go back to the start and read the thread entire to see where it all started going astray. And who was being disrespectful to others.

[I openly admit I was]

I'd show you some of the interesting PM's I've been getting, but apparently that's not allowed.


Rabid
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,393
7
36
Belgrade, Serbia
Actually, Dee said it.... And so did a lot of other famous magicians. Really RICH magicians.

Hold on, what did I say? :S
Sorry to drag you into this Dee, didn't mean to. You said that torrents will not bring food to your table for you and the missus. I thought that you were kidding... But either way, kidding or not, there were a lot of magicians who weren't kidding, and that just sickens me. They sound really spoiled when they say stuff like that. I will explain if there is a need.
Justin was just the drop that spill the glass (or whatever the expression is in English :) ).
Toby, I think you are ok in expressing your opinion but at least have a little respect towards others.

"Well, you have to be really stupid to continue to release products, if the first one that you did, made you less money than you spend."

Some magicians may have a TON of money and are driving expensive cars, etc. I don't think this is Justin's case. I believe he is a hard working middle class guy who is doing a heck of a job sharing his expertise in our art of magic. I'm sure it would burn me as well if a lot of my material was getting torrented. I do think the torrents help the popularity though some what so it is a bit of weird situation how it works.

I think your tone is what is making some members upset and rubs people the wrong way. I realize that Justin said a few things as well.

Can we seriously close this thread now so people will quit bashing one another?
I'm sorry for bringing that tone into discussion. I will not go over who started what, because that will only add fuel to the fire. You are right, and thanx for pointing that out.
My bad...
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
tralalalala...

hows this going to end?

"Lets stop piracy! yay"
"You cant! boo..."
"youre sthewpid!"
"youre fat!"
"you dont respect the art"
"i like painting. i love art"
"wtf? youre sthewpid"
"lame comeback"
"I lost a million dollars"
"youre poor now! yay"
"sorry"
"me too... but seriously youre still poor"
"youre bad at magic"
"Ooo..... I download your material... illegally"
"I will kill you in your sleep"
"i have your million dollars...."
"Im going to report you..."
"sandwiches"
 
Sorry to drag you into this Dee, didn't mean to. You said that torrents will not bring food to your table for you and the missus. I thought that you were kidding... But either way, kidding or not, there were a lot of magicians who weren't kidding, and that just sickens me. They sound really spoiled when they say stuff like that. I will explain if there is a need.
Justin was just the drop that spill the glass (or whatever the expression is in English :) ).

I'm sorry for bringing that tone into discussion. I will not go over who started what, because that will only add fuel to the fire. You are right, and thanx for pointing that out.
My bad...
What sickens you? Magicians who made an honest living? Your pathetic.

J.
 
What sickens you? Magicians who made an honest living?

J.

Why would anyone have anything against someone who made an honest living?

As to this topic once more, theft is theft, no matter what term it's given or which way it is practiced. Downloading something for free that was intended for sale is theft. The same way that selling something and then not delivering it or returning the customers money is theft. Learning the method behind a trick and then teaching it to as many people as one can find...theft. Whatever the circumstance or title, it amounts to the same thing; someone's hard work and time stolen when it was intended to make money, or someones' hard earned money stolen...y'see?


Thieves deserve little respect from anyone.



Rabid
 
If pirates and illegal downloading don't lead to the demise of magic, I believe immature magicians and their hostile bickering surely will. This stuff is always so sad to see...

Artist or no artist; creator or no creator; performer or no performer... we're all magicians to an extent. And instead of remaining civil and supporting each other through our individual endeavors in the craft, we choose to act like pompous d*cks to show off what we apparently know. And then to make matters worse, those who do share worthwhile views often get berated by the masses for some trivial drama which ultimately clutters/fogs the value of their insight.

How can we move forward when we're the ones taking two steps back for every step forward?

I don't care for replies... just honest reflection. Please. I believe this has always been a major problem in the magic community, and I would hope the majority of us would want to see it resolved. Egos aren't measures of credibility, creativity, or talent, but so many people use it as such. There's no need.

RS.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I reckon that if half of the so-called 'magicians' on this forum replaced their acts with a projected transcript of this thread on a white brick wall, it would be at least twice as entertaining as their best 'magic'.

So far, we've managed to have half a dozen or so disagreements, a fair number of insults, the rare good post, and have all unanimously agreed that "Piracy is bad!" Well who would've thought?!

Just wanted to point that out.

I don't even know where to start with a lot of different people, so I'm not going to bother tonight. Suffice to say that a few people should be taking a step back and thinking about what they're saying. Forget the fact that the guy you're arguing with bruised your ego. Let go of that insult from page 4. Just delete that PM filled with swearing. Look at what you're saying, look at the big picture. It's really remarkable.

For example, we've had two people say, when you cut it down, that "I don't care what the research or the facts say, it's wrong."

By the way - slavery, genocide and racism are wrong too.
 
I reckon that if half of the so-called 'magicians' on this forum replaced their acts with a projected transcript of this thread on a white brick wall, it would be at least twice as entertaining as their best 'magic'.

So far, we've managed to have half a dozen or so disagreements, a fair number of insults, the rare good post, and have all unanimously agreed that "Piracy is bad!" Well who would've thought?!

Just wanted to point that out.

I don't even know where to start with a lot of different people, so I'm not going to bother tonight. Suffice to say that a few people should be taking a step back and thinking about what they're saying. Forget the fact that the guy you're arguing with bruised your ego. Let go of that insult from page 4. Just delete that PM filled with swearing. Look at what you're saying, look at the big picture. It's really remarkable.

For example, we've had two people say, when you cut it down, that "I don't care what the research or the facts say, it's wrong."

By the way - slavery, genocide and racism are wrong too.

Exactly I couldn't have said it better. And I love your sig since its completly taken out of context but back on topic. The fighting amongst every one here is a night time drama without the big pay off, piracy is wrong but it will happen just enlighten those you can and do your part.
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
Just because it has a percent in it does not make it a statistic. . . .

Statistical data is collect through trials; and usually can not be proven as truth. You can make a general statemen that may guide you to developing a fact, but it isn't...

Also like your comparison of matter to statistics, I can prove the sun exists. Step outside what do I OBSERVE? I feel heat; its unbearably bright for this shut in, thus I can make the theory that a Big ol star is shining down on me.



And no I will not give you the satisfaction of giving my age because I feel it is incredibly irrelevant to the topic.

It is relevant. If you are young, then you have not had the proper science and math classes to understand why everything you say above is completely wrong. Being young, I can forgive the ignorance of youth. I remember when I was in 8th grade, I thought I knew everything. As I grew up, I realized that wasn't true.

If, however, you are an adult, then it is clear that you are belligerent and beyond hope of a rational or logical discussion. You are the type of person who simply puts their fingers in their ears, closes their eyes and says, "I know it's true, because I believe it's true. I don't care what people who actually know, think."

And yes, this is very much on topic.

The problem with Justin's claim re: lost sales is that he has no way of knowing if any of those people who downloaded his stuff illegally would have ever bought it in the first place. Further, he has no way of knowing when or if exposure to this material via download (which would have not been bought in the first place) led to future sales.

Again, you can choose to stick your fingers in your ears, expressing your desire to impugn studies which you admitted to knowing nothing about - or maybe you can open your eyes and concede that Justin's claims are backed by nothing but supposition.

Having said that, I would be ticked off too. But I think we can sympathize with his position while maintaining a respect for intellectual honesty.

Brad
 
Dec 16, 2008
115
0
Yeah, many people download a video because it's free. They are not willing to pay for it (mb never) so don't count all the illegal downloads to be creator's lost money.
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
32
Sorry for up staging you blood.

It is relevant. If you are young, then you have not had the proper science and math classes to understand why everything you say above is completely wrong.

That’s your opinion and you are entitled to it. I am curious though how am I wrong?

Being young, I can forgive the ignorance of youth. I remember when I was in 8th grade, I thought I knew everything. As I grew up, I realized that wasn't true.

Well isn’t that a heart warming story Mr. Henderson, at least it cooked my heart.
*eats his own heart*
Hey look I am heartless.

If, however, you are an adult, then it is clear that you are belligerent and beyond hope of a rational or logical discussion.
You are the type of person who simply puts their fingers in their ears, closes their eyes and says, "I know it's true, because I believe it's true. I don't care what people who actually know, think.

Hmm belligerent, I have to add that word to character description. Anyway you may say whatever you like, just know I am like a mirror what you have said in the last few sentence reflects right back to you.

And yes, this is very much on topic.
Well good then,

You hear that y’ll, as long as he says its on topic. I will keep responding because I love to type to people who think they are right because of their age, and status in life. Kind of like me I suppose.

The problem with Justin's claim re: lost sales is that he has no way of knowing if any of those people who downloaded his stuff illegally would have ever bought it in the first place. Further, he has no way of knowing when or if exposure to this material via download (which would have not been bought in the first place) led to future sales.

But you stated that people have put a lot of money (I know technical term) in the study of illegal downloading. Now are you contradicting the entire reason this monster manifested in the first place?

Again, you can choose to stick your fingers in your ears, expressing your desire to impugn studies which you admitted to knowing nothing about - or maybe you can open your eyes and concede that Justin's claims are backed by nothing but supposition.
Once again Brad, I have acknowledge the fact studies exist based completely off of what you said, like I have said in all of my posts I want to see your proof that your “Facts” hold up. Justin made an observation, (possibly by actually going on a torrent site and looking at the amount of times it has been torrented and then calculating the total cost that he lost.)

Also as an aside, you obviously didn’t take my warning by sending a pm so this will continue publicly. Here is a thought since you are the adult why don’t you just take the high road and ignore what I have just typed and not post again acknowledging me. I mean only a child would continue this foolish argument.
 
Dec 14, 2007
817
2
Here is a thought since you are the adult why don’t you just take the high road and ignore what I have just typed and not post again acknowledging me. I mean only a child would continue this foolish argument.


Because I happen to care what happens to magic. And when people are allowed to make uninformed statements which might influence other magicians, they should be identified and corrected.

Clearly you have no intention (and I assume ability) to hold a rational discourse on the issue of illegal downloading and the monetary effects it has on creators.

For those who DO care what people who have actually STUDIED the situation think, please visit the Genii forum and check out some of the discussions there. They will link you to many of the studies.

Brad

p.s. The last line is a nice try, but heavy handed and inelegantly presented. Re-read your Knepper.

p.p.s. Your profile lists you as 19. So, either you are a kid who thinks he knows more than he does, or a liar. In either case, now I know what I am dealing with. Good luck with your magic.
 
Searching...
{[{ searchResultsCount }]} Results