The Magician Online

The Magician Online is a live, interactive, online experience - in the comfort of your own home. Starring Dan White. As seen by Ashton Kutcher, Ariana Grande, Chris Rock, James Corden, Jessica Alba, and President Clinton.

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Justin Miller on Piracy

Sep 17, 2008
This just goes to show how useful books are. And I do mean books, not ebooks. PDF files are just as easy to find on the web than videos are on youtube.
Oct 15, 2008
Trust me, people spend their time scanning in books... It doesn't make sense to me, putting in so much effort to share something that you spent money on... Even barring the author, it doesn't make sense :S

Welcome to America.
Actually welcome to planet earth.

People just don't make sense.

oh and i did laugh at that video....

but only because justin said peacers

Jan 1, 2009
Back in Time
Piracy is bad.

Tho a lot of the tutorials on youtube are pretty much ignored by the masses. I don't know anybody who wants to see a stuttering 14 year old babble through the video, with the camera being fuzzy or focused on his crotch.

I do know there are a few tutorials on things like the DL or the pass or whatever. Which doesn't really bother me because those moves and everything have been expired for a VERY VERY VERY long time.

Tho what Dee said is right, when people pirate or watch youtube tutorials of his stuff or other peoples effects. They lose money. They put the effort into researching them and also the effort and years into actually working on them.

Deleted member 2755

One time I saw a torrent for 1,000 magic books. Well known ones were in there too such as the AOA series, Card College series, Darwin Ortiz books, Banachek books, and more.

Just saying.

Sep 1, 2007
Belgrade, Serbia
One time I saw a torrent for 1,000 magic books. Well known ones were in there too such as the AOA series, Card College series, Darwin Ortiz books, Banachek books, and more.

Just saying.

[joke]Can you send me the torrent link? [/joke]

My country is only on 33rd place? Wow, I'm surprised, I thought it was going to be like #2 or #3... And Armenia is #1? Are there even computers in Armenia? [/nationalist joke]
Dec 26, 2007
I think that piracy is wrong but I dont think it affects sales as much as you might expect. If torrent s did not exist you would still have people trading tapes so they look like a hero at the local magic meeting. The good people buy it's that simple.

Just curious why are so many people concerned with Justin Millers clothing and facial hair? There are several other threads on other forums and even magazine reviews that bring up his dress, I dont know it just seems weird.
Jun 4, 2008
whats up guys?

if you do not think that piracy and torrents affects sales let me give you some FACTUAL proof.

DG and me actually have done the leg work on this PERSONALLY.

So far to date with everything i have put out all my dvds (23 dvds, 2 lecture notes, and one e-book) I have lost over 3 million dollars in sales NO JOKE.

The latest dvd that jist came out like 3 months ago or so was 7 deadly sleights it sells for $30 it has been ILLEGALLY downloaded over 25,000 times already thats almost a quarter of a million dollars JIST IN THAT ALONE.
So if you don't think piracy and torrents hurst sales you need to do a little more research. The numbers are staggering.

It has to be stopped and policed or lets make it REALLY hard for peeps to git it.
We have production companies we are the ones who can make a difference.
Make no mistake about it WE ARE IN A WAR.


Mar 29, 2008
I wrote a big long post...then looking for this video, I erased it in short, there are a few people in magic video downloaders:

Those that are ripping people off, so they avoid being ripped off by bad videos with poor quality effects - they don't want to waste money. This argument only holds up if you are BUYING the videos from the ones they sample and life. Afterall, you are getting paid with their stuff - if you aren't sending that money back full circle, it is classless.

In music, people download tunes - I personally buy albums after I sampe them. If you don't, and we all download - CD stores lose money, as do the artists, they have to up their prices, less people buy so less music is made. This effects the music industry...but less so. Why? Well, one person in magic represent a larger percentage of the market than in music - but we do see the impact that websites that allow free downloads have.

Then we have guy 2 - the guy that is just taking and taking to build up his massive collection of videos? He downloads videos like someone is going to erase them all the next day, or the internet will make it illeagal - never giving money back to the artists whose material he does. This is stealing.

Which reminds me of this Chapelle skit on "if the internet was a real place" - it would be disgusting...people having sex with horses, pooping in a cup, stealing identities, and a bunch of magic nerds talking about ideas that nobody gives a know what, I got to go.

The point - if you download and the video sucks - you saved money - but if it is good - send the money back to the artist. I only say this because I would never have known about Hollingsworth, Asher, Fisher and a few others - if it weren't for a mix VHS tape a buddy made for me...yep, VHS, I am friggin old. However, I have put money back in every one of those artists pocket...especally Lee...he beats me up for my lunch money daily.

So, yeah...maybe we can't or won't stop downloading - I personally don't do it, but when I was was a quick fix to not being rich neough to buy it all. However, the issue is beyond money - magic used to be a brotherhood - we bonded over sharing something important - the secret to something we found through earning the right to learn it from another, or finding something in print/video that not everyone could just click and take. Like I read in magic mag - we used to Oogle over we google over magic. It makes the secret less valuable - don't think so? Name one thing you are proud of you didn't work hard for? That is what I thought - nothing - so how is stealing a video working hard for the secret...or building the brotherhood by sharing? What is to bring us together? It seems all we chat about now is "presentation" because anyone that is on this forum can also steal magic from a million sources. Why would you want to take from an art you love, but never give back in support. Why? Selfish reasons are all that come to mind. When you buy something you aren't spending money - you are contributing to your art. Anyhow...this got long again...just copy and paste the Chapelle link if you haven't seen it...and imagine if he covered how we act on forums, youtube and torrent - cheers.
Mar 29, 2008
PS - I know the irony of posting a Youtube clip of Dave Chapelle's show when talking about internet stealing...but hey...I OWN ALL HIS SEASONS, and he owes me 80 bucks for a bar tab he never pitched in, we are even. Take that Chapelle!!! Screwed by the white man white that I don't even type in black letters...mainly, because the forum makes those letters invisible.
Mar 13, 2009
Honestly, why don't we stop pissing around and complaning and actually do something about exposure?
Im sure we could be creative and do somethng like use software encryption on DVD's and videos.



forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
Louisville, OH
Did you read DannyT's post? It doesn't matter how encrypted the DVDs / videos are.
People just set their cam corders up in front of the TV screen and tape it as it plays.
Not that complicated.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I understand JM's frustration as well as many other artists.
Mar 13, 2009
Did you read DannyT's post? It doesn't matter how encrypted the DVDs / videos are.
People just set their cam corders up in front of the TV screen and tape it as it plays.
Not that complicated.

I'm not sure what the answer is but I understand JM's frustration as well as many other artists.

It would make it more dfficult to pirate dvd's, so it would slim the numbers of pirates. But thats not the only things you could do. I said be creative, so im sure we could think up a lot more ways to protect our secrets onlne.

A bit off topc, but is t just me or does JM look a bit like Nicolas Cage?
Mar 2, 2008
I think there should come a time in a magicains life when they stop buyin products. I'm not saying buying products is bad but there should be a point when you can make up new tricks with slights you learned over the years.

Then when you perform effects correctly it would be close to impossable to figure out what you did during the performance and afterwards if they try looking it up on the internet they come up with nothing.
Dec 14, 2007

First, I appreciate your passion regarding piracy, however your 'proof' is flawed. There have been several discussions of this very matter over on the genii forum with people who have access to the actual scientific research behind this topic. In short, many studies disagree with the conclusions your informal observations have drawn.

While I too disagree with the act of piracy, I must be intellectually honest and evaluate the facts for what they are. I suggest you explore some of those topics, or look up the studies done specifically as they relate to the RIAA claims regarding the monetary loss resulting from piracy.

On a personal note, I would like to ask a sincere question:

What do you hope to accomplish by intentionally misspelling the words 'just' and 'get?'.

Do you think this will garner respect among literate adults? Are you hoping to curry favor among children with spelling problems?

I remember one thread where you were very adamant that you were much older than I thought you were (Early 30's, late 20's?), so I assume you have a reason for this choice.

Perhaps there is another reason I simple cannot fathom. Several people have commented lately about your orthography.

Would you mind explaining what we are supposed to get from it?

(And I'm not trying to be antagonistic, I am sincerely curious AND I hope you will find the studies I referenced interesting if not enlightening)

Jan 13, 2008

Could you be so kind as to post some names of researchers, names of studies, etc? I have access to a wide array of journal articles (through my university), and would be interested in looking into this. :)

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