Magic Biggest Secret's Finally Revealed a good thing?

[tonybanuelos88]

im here eating pizza rolls and watching this with my dad he's watching the chicks im trying to figure it out before its revealed but we discussed it and we think it IS beneficial
why? good question
because with one less trick another has to be created so he's forcing everyone to make new tricks by revealing old ones so he's kinda helping make sense?

 

[Jack Webster]

I agree, at least for stage magic.

 

[ZacEckstein]

Indubitably...

 

[Rmana]

Is it beneficial, yes... but is it right, I don't know.

They weren't his tricks and he did not create them and at the end he talks about how he will be performing new illusions. Do you think he'd appreciate someone else going out and revealing all of his new illusions?

 

[Glenn West]

I've always felt that this argument was complete bull ****. An audience member only need one method for how to make something disappear, or levitate, etc. Even if they don't remember what that explanation was, they remember that the "know how it's done."

So, no matter what new method you come up with, the spectator will still dismiss it as "palming" or what ever explanation they remember, right or wrong.

It doesn't encourage us to come up with new "tricks" as there are only so many "magical" things you can do.

We can have as many "new" presentations and methods as we like, but if a spectator has had a similar effect "exposed" then they "know" how the "new" one is done too, in their own minds.

 

[magicman384]

If they make new illusion's he will reveal them anyways.

 

[visualartist]

Ooh this threads dangerous.
But my input is that it doesnt really hurt or help magic.
In my experience with laymen,its very very rare the person that watches this.And if they do they've only seen one episode.
It doesnt hurt me at all because I dont do stage magic or the close-up commercial tricks he reveals.
The presentation does change everything.People really dont remember what they see on T.V. or most of the time what they did last week because everyone lives a routine.So the routine days all blend in together.
Either way,spectators never truly believe what we do is real.And they shouldntBut its amazing anyway.No matter how its done.

 

[nexusmagic]

Other than the fact I have already watched the episode before I forgot every method taught. It bothers me that he exposes certain rip off illusions but any real thinking adult knows there is a method but can't find the solution. Adults who watch an illusionist knows there is a solution because they are rational.

 

[Randy]

He's pretty much banned from a lot of circles and screwed his own career over.

 

[Deleted member 2755]

The fact anyone can say that magic being revealed on television is a good thing is beyond me. People are always saying that it allows the art to evolve. Well I look at it like this... We wouldn't need to "evolve" if there was no reason to in the first place.

Let's look at an actual example. We will use the virus. Long ago there was no such thing as actual medication and viruses did their job. Then antibiotics were invented and these killed the viruses. Now we have viruses that are evolving and are becoming immune to these antibiotics so now scientists must come up with stronger antibiotics.

You see where I'm going with this? We are just people. These shows are the viruses. If these "viruses" never existed, why would we even need to evolve? Also, what's the point in even saying we need to evolve if we have been doing it with and without these viruses from stopping us. Its not like we all only use one false cut, one false shuffle, and that's it. We are always expanding our knowledge. All these TV shows do is annoy us so that we have people that love to annoy us by going "Hey I've seen that on TV!" So we just go to a different control or effect depending on the situation.

Saying that as one effect is revealed, we need to create another is really pointless, means nothing, and is actually wrong. Magic doesn't work that way. Magicians are always trying to come up with new ideas to astonish their audiences. Just because the masked moron revealed something doesn't mean that the president of all magic says "Ok.... Blah blah was revealed. Now we need something new." It doesn't work like that at all. We are constantly playing with new ideas whether the masked moron has a special on or not.

I also think people make way too big of a deal about magic appearing on TV than they need to. I remember I was VERY against it and it annoyed me as well until another magician opened my eyes. People make a big deal about everything when its nothing. Black Tigers start getting sold in some stores. OH NO MAGIC WILL NEVER BE THE SAME! Celebracadabra goes on the air. NO! MAGIC IS GONE FOREVER! Guardians on the shelves at Wall Mart. I MIGHT AS WELL JUST QUIT MAGIC!

None of these things have effected us at all whatsoever. So these viruses that I spoke of earlier are more like the annoying fly that won't go away. Its not hurting you at all. Its just there. So what is the best thing to do if you can't get rid of it? Simply ignore it. Whatever. Big deal.

Has magic on TV actually REALLY effected your magic? My bets would be no. So is this good for magic? Nope. It does not encourage us to evolve at all either because we are always trying to evolve with or without challenges ahead of us. All it means is that stage magicians need to change up their act a bit because some annoying fly on TV decided to show how it was done. That's it.

-Doug

 

[William Draven]

Do we ~really~ need another magic being revieled on TV/Internet/ blah thread? Seriously?

I think if you bothered to take the 5 minutes time to actually read the message board threads you'd probably have the answer to your question without having to post this all over again.

I know I've said my peace on the matter atleast three diffrent times on three seperate threads. I'm pretty much done defending and attacking this subject.

Short and sweet. Yes it does bennefit magic. It brings new people to the art by satisfing a certain cureosity and only inspires to dive deeper into the art to learn and perform better/more. It serves as a tutorial for newer students to understand and see how large stage style effects can be accomplished, AND it forces the working pro's to continue to evolve their existing acts to keep with the times. On the other hand, as someone else pointed out, is it ethicaly or moraly right to do this? Probably not.

 

[lilstunna]

I wouldnt say that its a good thing, but it doesnt hurt us as much as we really think it does

 

[Deleted member 2755]

Yes it does bennefit magic. It brings new people to the art by satisfing a certain cureosity and only inspires to dive deeper into the art to learn and perform better/more.

I did not think of that as I was typing my previous post. I admit that is correct as without commercialism of magic, I would not had found it. It does have its benefits as magic has changed me a lot and I have no plans of ever leaving magic.

-Doug

 

[William Draven]

I did not think of that as I was typing my previous post. I admit that is correct as without commercialism of magic, I would not had found it. It does have its benefits as magic has changed me a lot and I have no plans of ever leaving magic.

-Doug

Thank you! I'm glad to know that I am not alone in this sea of chaos with that opinion.

 

[aznofspades]

The virus analogy taken the opposite way:

Vaccine gives you a little taste of the virus so you can get used to it.

Laymen wanna learn a trick.
Someone is revealing the basic secrets behind some tricks.

I have decided to teach the 3 Card Monte to people if they ask and are genuinely interested.

Why?

They want to learn a trick.
The sleight of hand in this trick is complicated enough that they could get it if they really practiced.
They appreciate how hard the sleight of hand is after trying to throw the top card a few times.
It might help them avoid getting ripped off in the future.
Helps me give off the appearance of a down to earth guy.
They kinda already know its not magic, cuz they've heard of 3CM before and know its a hustle

It won't help them when they play with me

cuz its still hard to tell when the hype is thrown.
I usually don't tip the bent corner move
If someone saw a noob throwing it and then played with me, they would still be impressed

Has magic on TV actually REALLY effected your magic? My bets would be no. So is this good for magic? Nope. It does not encourage us to evolve at all either because we are always trying to evolve with or without challenges ahead of us. All it means is that stage magicians need to change up their act a bit because some annoying fly on TV decided to show how it was done. That's it.

-Doug

People are like: MINDFREAK!! MINDFREAK!!

Can you do that thing that David Blaine did?

It basically raises awareness about magic.

So basically yes, in a good way.

______
If a trick you do is exposed:

INVALIDATE THE EXPOSED METHOD
change the method
use convincers and conditions to prove that it's not the exposed method

OR MAKE THEM NOT CARE ABOUT THE METHOD
slide it in after establishing your credibility
an engaging new presentation
have a personality

Or just do a different trick. The tricks that they expose are the ones that all the magicians on TV are doing. You can either do something tried and trued that everyone else is doing or take risks and try being an individual. Flip that coin (or bite it lol)

 

[dejavu05]

Interesting take from the Masked Magician himself. I gained a lot more respect for him after this video when he talked about how important the presentation of a trick is.

Click Me!

 

[MagicShadow9]

I have to agree with Valentino on the video. Magic shouldn't be about the secret, if you're magic is about fooling people, then you've got it all wrong. The presentation and the emotions behind it are what really matters. After all, magic is a form of entertainment, and a game of "Where did it go?"

 

[Randy]

Magic isn't about fooling people, but it's also not about revealing everything to them and then turning it into a puzzle. People are supposed to enjoy the mystery of magic. Once you've exposed how you do everything, you are not only hurting yourself but others as well. No matter if you think you are helping people out.

As well, exposing your magic does not bring them into the magic. It ruins it for them and makes it less entertaining.

 

[Zephil]

I initially wrote a massive wall of text for this post, but I shortened it down to get my point across:

Although the effects of the show may not be overall negative, Valentino is forcing a change. I don't like that. Magicians should be able to perform whatever works for them. He claims to be "forcing us to come up with new and better tricks and methods". This is one of the most biased statements in magic. Laymen generally dont know much about magic. And thus, it doesn't really matter what the trick is. If the premise of the trick is good, and your performance is good, it should not matter what the trick is.

In short, what is the reason for us to change our tricks? Especially since most been around for so short a time! How many of you out there perform the cups and balls? Think about how long that's been around. Does its age make it any less deceptive? No.

Besides, magicians will come up with new and better tricks ANYWAYS. Why? Aesthetics. Although it may not seem like it, we are all competing with each other and most importantly with ourselves to come up with the next cool thing for us to entertain our audiences with. There is no reason, or positive point in revealing still successful tricks.

A final note: he claims that it doesn't matter that the tricks are revealed because of the importance of the performance. Fail at reasoning. In fact, he has instead put his fellow magicians on the defencive. Now, the many lay people have knowledge of technique. What does this mean? Now that they know more about it, it increases the likelyhood that the spectator will try to turn your trick (no matter your performance) into a hide and go find the sleight game. We have enough hecklers to waste time pasifying as it is .


(yeah, in hind-sight, this post is more dramatic than the situation really calls for. But these are my thoughts on the situation, while the negatives are there, they really arent anything to worry about. I just cant see a single positive that wouldn't have otherwise occured on its own. What makes me angry is the bogus justification [my opinion])


MY TWENTY THREE CENTS.


P.S. otherwise though, I agree with aznofspades. However the awareness comes at a cost.

 

[Randy]

I personally believe that he is wrong 100%. Its not up to him to cause change and really there are better ways to go about changing magic than just exposing classic effects on TV. Ironically he wants people to be better showmen. Yet when you see him perform, he sucks ass and has the showmanship of a log.

The thing about classic sleights is that they can be used in such devious was to create new and better effects. The French Drop and the Retention Pass/vanish are all used in a crap ton of coin tricks that have even fooled pros.