My One Coin Routine

Sep 26, 2007
591
5
Tokyo, Japan
My two cents:

1: If you are doing a single coin routine, use a bigger coin (a morgan perhaps). If someone were to get on and post a video of them doing some card tricks and at the end they said, "by the way I only use 40 cards, because my hands are small and doing tricks with all 52 is really hard" EVERYONE on this forum would burn them at the stake. TBH, that routine you did would not that much harder with a morgan (except for maybe the muscle pass).

2: That is a LOT of patter for routine with not much visual content. It is a good starting ground, but sometimes too much patter can kill an effect (something that a lot of magicians fail to notice). Either add more phases, bigger phases, or cut down on the patter.

3: I agree with other people's comments about changing the ending from "now it has traveled back in time to being nothing." I like the idea of taking the coin out of the coin person, and in the end, having it travel back in time to being in the coin purse again.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
Scott, it was the first video I pulled.

Lit cig vanished isn't really a "routine" it is a single moment. I am not saying you can't end with a vanish, although I might have come across that way. There are many routines that do...however, the theory given in a movie was by Michael Weber...and have seen him talk about it. It is an interesting take on where the audiences mind is at.

Believe what you want guys, your opinions are valued. I am convinced of two things, an effect can end with a vanish...and Scott is a douchebag.

Keep sticking with what you know and do, and you will get the same results. I commend you all on not being flexible. Cheers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

morpheis91

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2007
199
4
Philadelphia
www.myspace.com
Ok so I saw the routine and it is good (agree about the less movement in the hands for the muscle pass) The routine provides justification for every phase and is complete. I disagree that this is too much patter for this effect because it will keep the audience engaged. I prefer this type of patter when I do walk-around gigs because it is entertaining and fun. Magic takes place in peoples mind and I feel like his patter helps facilitate that. Magic doesn't always have to be visual.

I often end coin routines with a complete vanish. I love time-travel based patter because it is entertaining and can easily be adapted for magic.

Morgan is correct about saying that the spectators will sometimes ask "Where did it go?" is this necessarily a bad thing? It evokes mystery and many times pure disbelief & astonishment. Spectators will NOT feel like this routine is incomplete and they WILL be entertained. I know this because I do a similar coin routine (Different patter) where the coin completely vanishes at the end as well. People love it and they react great to it! People's eyes light up when they see the coin is COMPLETELY gone because there is no doubt that the coin is gone when you show both hands empty.

I think this would be a great way to end a walkaround set because of the mystery it evokes. You can do this routine and then thank them for their time and move to the next group. The mystery behind the ending will leave your spectators talking about what just took place, keep their minds busy trying to think of places the coin could have gone, and give them a memorable experience. Rather than, the coin ending up in your shoe which will remove that particular element of mystery from the effect and fade from he spectators mind after sometime because he/she will know "THE COIN DISAPPEARED AND WAS IN HIS SHOE" there is no more mystery.

In the end there is no Right or Wrong it just depends on what message the magician is trying to get across with his/her performance.
 
Oct 29, 2009
971
0
Just around
...and Scott is a douchebag.
Wow, maturity city here.

Anyway, I see no problem in having a coin vanish then not reproducing it. It makes sense in many situations. Especially at the end of a routine.

On the other hand, if you vanished something like a borrowed cell phone, then yea, you're gonna want to reproduce it. Otherwise people are going to be like "Dude, you gonna give me my cell phone back now?"

In some ways, reproducing it is redundant. You vanish all the coins at the end of the routine, the reproduce them. Why? You vanished them, why do you want them back now? Why did you vanish them in the first place if you were going to reproduce them?

Anyway, I see no problem in vanishing an object and not reproducing it. But I'd like to here your thoughts on why you should always reproduce it.


Cheers
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,960
1
34
Long Island/New York
Since most people gave criticism of the effect, I'm going to post a few on your patter.
It's well written. . .

You have to understand that you sound weird speaking the way you do while performing an effect. This can't be the way you speak in everyday casual conversation, is it?
I hope not.

I know you do acting, but I'd suggest you take it down a notch.
It sounds too this is how a magician is suppose to speak kind of thing.
In other words, you sound fake.
Make it real. Speak how a regular person speaks.

You speaking as a magician is like a white boy trying to be gangster.
It's poser-ish.
 
Sep 1, 2007
445
248
39
Calgary
www.hermitmagic.com
Morgan is correct about saying that the spectators will sometimes ask "Where did it go?"

Agreed.

In some ways, reproducing it is redundant. You vanish all the coins at the end of the routine, the reproduce them. Why? You vanished them, why do you want them back now? Why did you vanish them in the first place if you were going to reproduce them?

Agreed.

It sounds too this is how a magician is supposed to speak kind of thing.
In other words, you sound fake.
Make it real. Speak how a regular person speaks.

Agreed.

Scott.
 

morpheis91

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2007
199
4
Philadelphia
www.myspace.com
Since most people gave criticism of the effect, I'm going to post a few on your patter.
It's well written. . .

You have to understand that you sound weird speaking the way you do while performing an effect. This can't be the way you speak in everyday casual conversation, is it?
I hope not.

I know you do acting, but I'd suggest you take it down a notch.
It sounds too this is how a magician is suppose to speak kind of thing.
In other words, you sound fake.
Make it real. Speak how a regular person speaks.

You speaking as a magician is like a white boy trying to be gangster.
It's poser-ish.

I think its not that bad to speak the way he did. It all depends on what type of character/persona he wants to build for his audience. Most successful magicians have their own character/persona. It adds another element of entertainment and uniqueness. Personally I was entertained with what he was saying and by his body language, though (you are right danny) it was very generic. I do think he could have toned it down a little bit to sound less like a robot. But he wasn't performing for an actual person so sometimes its hard not to sound so scripted if your not performing for anyone because there is no interaction taking place. Just you and the camera.

I usually have "dynamic" scripts that change depending on the feel I'm getting for the crowd/spectator. With dynamic patter one can have a basis for their story lines but add elements that customize the effect for your audience (make them relate, crack a joke about someone, etc).

So Dan I agree with what you were saying about sounding unnatural but I just don't feel its right to say it the way you did.

One final thought, the analogy at the end was just inappropriate. Race should not be brought in this forum. This is a magic forum and little remarks like that seem quite childish, immature and ignorant. I am Hispanic (I know race doesn't matter but I am just giving you an Idea of my point of view) and I am from North Philadelphia. I've seen and know "gangsters" if thats how you wanna put it, in all different sizes, ages and races. Race has nothing to do with how "gangster" someone is. Making stereotypes like this is wrong and takes away from the points you are trying to make (which are completely good points). I am sure that you didn't have bad intentions with your comment but just keep in mind that others can take offense to comments like that. Thanks!

PS - I myself wasn't offended but just surprised that a comment like that was made on this forum
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
FYI Prae - Morgan B once was Morgician, I think prior posts show I resort to logic most times, but time is short, and I don't have time to prove a point that will be lost on most - I have no hard feelings for Scott, and my humour IS immature...so suck it, ha.

Anyhow, I am willing to retract my statement that you always have to reproduce something that is vanished, but I do stand by the idea that it doesn't hurt to reproduce the coin in this situation. I thought of pulling it out of a coin purse, the going through a routine, to have it start back in the purse - this is more true to plot, but that is how I think about magic...perhaps you want your audience to believe that the coin travelled back in time before it existed? I just don't buy that kind of presentation...but I also don't believe in Santa.

So, Scott isn't a douchebag, but I reserve my feelings about the rest of you...

To keep the ball rolling - there are MANY effects that end in a vanish, that could be stronger if the item was reproduced - even if it wasn't the identical item. Lit Cigarette would KILL if you could reproduce it, and some methods allow for that - I find it gets a better reaction. It is one thing to hide a lit cig, but another to hid it, then reproduce it. I feel this way about many effects - as I think a vanish is strong...but bringing it back is what sells. They do this on stage - if Copperfield just vanished the Statue of Liberty, then said..THANKS FOR WATCHING, it wouldn't have had the same impact.

Now, I have seen people end on the vanish, different outcome...but again, I don't find this satisfying. So, I guess you guys will have to deal with the fact that I find a vanish to be a poor ending, but you have convinced me that this is not ALWAYS the case. Thanks.
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,960
1
34
Long Island/New York
One final thought, the analogy at the end was just inappropriate. Race should not be brought in this forum. This is a magic forum and little remarks like that seem quite childish, immature and ignorant. I am Hispanic (I know race doesn't matter but I am just giving you an Idea of my point of view) and I am from North Philadelphia. I've seen and know "gangsters" if thats how you wanna put it, in all different sizes, ages and races. Race has nothing to do with how "gangster" someone is. Making stereotypes like this is wrong and takes away from the points you are trying to make (which are completely good points). I am sure that you didn't have bad intentions with your comment but just keep in mind that others can take offense to comments like that. Thanks!

PS - I myself wasn't offended but just surprised that a comment like that was made on this forum

Come on, this is one thing I don't like.
Members are too sensitive and takes things too seriously.
It wasn't a racist comment.
After reading it, everyone knew what I was referring to. . . . a wannabe.
Case-closed.
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,268
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
To he who commented on my style of performance.... It's who I am as a magician, actor, and person. Yes the patter in the video was a bit static and in reality I'm nowhere near like that. But what you see in the video is both a character and an extension of me.
 

Luis Vega

Elite Member
Mar 19, 2008
1,838
278
38
Leon, Guanajuato Mexico
luisvega.com.mx
To he who commented on my style of performance.... It's who I am as a magician, actor, and person. Yes the patter in the video was a bit static and in reality I'm nowhere near like that. But what you see in the video is both a character and an extension of me.

I agree...everyone has his own style...

usually I am myself with a little more charisma and I talk a little more slow...

I think that the closest your character is to the real you...the less nervous you are going to feel during performing...
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
Truthfully, Kras' video is really who he is...that is his natural. I think it is a charming approach, and perhaps more sophisticated than most. Keep up the good work bro, your magic has come a long way. Cheers.
 

morpheis91

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2007
199
4
Philadelphia
www.myspace.com
Come on, this is one thing I don't like.
Members are too sensitive and takes things too seriously.
It wasn't a racist comment.
After reading it, everyone knew what I was referring to. . . . a wannabe.
Case-closed.

Yeah I didn't say it was racist and I also said I wasn't offended. I just felt your comment was inappropriate. I got the point you were trying to make and I repeatedly said it was a valid point. I feel like you have some great input for magicians on this site, I just feel the analogy was unnecessary and that you could have offended someone else, thats all. I am NOT calling you racist at all, I also said in my post that you probably didn't have bad intentions either. I just feel race should, for the most part, be kept out of this forum. Also I feel that most people who aren't working magicians on this forum "Want to be" a magician. When I first started magic I "wanted to be" a magician. His patter didn't seem like he was a wannabe, it seemed like he was enunciating and wanted to make sure his patter was being conveyed as clearly as possible. Eric Jones enunciates all of his patter. If thats the magicians style then let them go for it. Don't try and shoot him down and call him names like "Wannabe"

MorganB said:
FYI Prae - Morgan B once was Morgician, I think prior posts show I resort to logic most times, but time is short, and I don't have time to prove a point that will be lost on most - I have no hard feelings for Scott, and my humour IS immature...so suck it, ha.

Anyhow, I am willing to retract my statement that you always have to reproduce something that is vanished, but I do stand by the idea that it doesn't hurt to reproduce the coin in this situation. I thought of pulling it out of a coin purse, the going through a routine, to have it start back in the purse - this is more true to plot, but that is how I think about magic...perhaps you want your audience to believe that the coin travelled back in time before it existed? I just don't buy that kind of presentation...but I also don't believe in Santa.

So, Scott isn't a douchebag, but I reserve my feelings about the rest of you...

To keep the ball rolling - there are MANY effects that end in a vanish, that could be stronger if the item was reproduced - even if it wasn't the identical item. Lit Cigarette would KILL if you could reproduce it, and some methods allow for that - I find it gets a better reaction. It is one thing to hide a lit cig, but another to hid it, then reproduce it. I feel this way about many effects - as I think a vanish is strong...but bringing it back is what sells. They do this on stage - if Copperfield just vanished the Statue of Liberty, then said..THANKS FOR WATCHING, it wouldn't have had the same impact.

Now, I have seen people end on the vanish, different outcome...but again, I don't find this satisfying. So, I guess you guys will have to deal with the fact that I find a vanish to be a poor ending, but you have convinced me that this is not ALWAYS the case. Thanks.

I think you are right as well. All in all its up to the magician and there are times when a complete vanish is better and times when a reproduction is better.
 
Aug 31, 2007
1,960
1
34
Long Island/New York
I feel that most people who aren't working magicians on this forum "Want to be" a magician. When I first started magic I "wanted to be" a magician. His patter didn't seem like he was a wannabe, it seemed like he was enunciating and wanted to make sure his patter was being conveyed as clearly as possible. Eric Jones enunciates all of his patter. If thats the magicians style then let them go for it. Don't try and shoot him down and call him names like "Wannabe"
I didn't call him a wannabe, I'm trying to critique his performance.

I'm saying, he sounds like he's trying to be like Jay Sankey. That's all.
I don't like it when kids try and imitate someone else. His enunciating didn't sound organic, it sounded like he was trying too hard.
Be yourself, it's fine.
 

morpheis91

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2007
199
4
Philadelphia
www.myspace.com
I didn't call him a wannabe, I'm trying to critique his performance.

I'm saying, he sounds like he's trying to be like Jay Sankey. That's all.
I don't like it when kids try and imitate someone else. His enunciating didn't sound organic, it sounded like he was trying too hard.
Be yourself, it's fine.

I see where you are coming from. He did sound unnatural but I'm willing to bet it was because there was no one there. Ok lets stop haha, we are just repeating ourselves. TRUCE
 
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