People messing up my tricks :'(

Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
And since you have such great experience with hecklers, can you please share your many methods to deal with them? Perhaps an anecdote?

You win the rest of the crowd over. I once had a kid walk behind me when I was busking and saw my classic palm. He spent a lot of time afterward following me around crowing that he was smarter than me and knew all of my secrets. I smiled and humored him. "That would be one way to do it."

At one point, the kid kept interrupting everything to spout off his incorrect theories about the method. At one point, he cut off one of my volunteers as he was answering a question. I held my hand out to the kid and said, "Hey! Jeff is talking, let him finish." Jeff gave the kid a dark glare. A minute later when the kid spouted off another theory, Jeff and all his friends turned and yelled in unison, "Shut up!" Kid left not long after.

They all tipped me and I got rid of a thorn in my side. And I barely had to do anything. I knew that this kid wasn't liable to give up. His dad just stood there the whole time and never intervened. He wasn't going to be any help. So I treated him like a bratty kid brother, brushing off his attempts to get my attention, and stood up for my audience when the kid interrupted them to hog the spotlight. In the process, I became their buddy. As I expected, the kid's intrusiveness just became worse and more obnoxious and shrill. Finally, the audience chased him off for me.

Similarly, if someone is confident they caught you, just put up your hands, roll your eyes and smile and say, "Okay, you win." Most people will interpret it as just trying to placate the confrontational spectator so that everyone can move on, but a heckler will almost always interpret it as patronizing. And if you think I'm hostile, you should see how hecklers react to this. They'll end up alienating everyone else in the ensuing tantrum.

You do not use "big words" because they fit into what you say. You know it is necessary, that your point of view would still be clearly seen without the addition of such words. You use them to make yourself feels stronger don't you? because here in the virtual world, your actual physical state doesn't matter does it? In the real world, you would never go ahead and insult someone on your 2nd sentence would you? but here on the internet, you're big ol' steerpike, oh so tough...
Get over the fact that you don't have to use insult as a tool of debate. You don't see the UN calling out each other and using names do you? I don't think so. Grow up kid.

So, you don't actually mean words like "solipsistic." You mean words like ****. And I don't use profanity to belittle you. I don't know where you got that idea. I swear because I like to say ****. Also nothing I said was an actual ad hominem attack. I was just more blunt than you're used to and you overreacted. I didn't call you any names, I didn't attack you as a person, and I never tried to build myself up and tear you down in the same breath (like you did not too long ago).

I suggest you check that attitude of yours and realize I'm not your enemy. But if you persist in trying to make me one by claiming a moral high ground that you do not in fact possess and then attacking me personally in the next breath, well... your funeral.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
You win the rest of the crowd over.
Yes that is a possible and quite typical story. I too have used similar method.
But hey, almost all methods work for someone.
Just the way you view it.
I just don't see what's wrong with taking care of the heckler yourself? I have handled plenty of hecklers through confrontation and never have I had any negative consequences. The heckler learns his/ her lesson, the audience have a great time, my performance finishes beautifully, what else could I want?

So, you don't actually mean words like "solipsistic." You mean words like ****. And I don't use profanity to belittle you. I don't know where you got that idea. I swear because I like to say ****. Also nothing I said was an actual ad hominem attack. I was just more blunt than you're used to and you overreacted. I didn't call you any names, I didn't attack you as a person, and I never tried to build myself up and tear you down in the same breath (like you did not too long ago).
No. I don't mean "big words" like so solipsist, pharmacopoei, husbandry, or any other word deeply ingrained in my brain from SAT prep long ago, I mean swear words... thus the quotation marks.
Swearing in a debate is unnecessary and childish. It affects the tone of what you are saying and can emotionally affect whoever you are debating with.
"Oh quit your ****ing crying." is not being blunt. It's just being a dick. you could have just as easily said "Oh quit your crying" couldn't you? If you have to resort to swearing during an intellectual debate then i would say you have less self-control than those who butt-heads with hecklers.

I suggest you check that attitude of yours and realize I'm not your enemy. But if you persist in trying to make me one by claiming a moral high ground that you do not in fact possess and then attacking me personally in the next breath, well... your funeral.
Once again my dear boy, I am not claiming a moral high ground, and obviously neither are you.
I am not trying to make you my enemy. I was merely defending my point of view, which was bluntly attacked by you, without much elaboration I might add.
And aren't you the one who is consistently berated for having indecent attitude in the most petty of discussions? and you tell me to check mine...
Saying things like "well... your funeral" are threats aren't they? are those necessary? really?
You better grow up kid or i'll find you and kick you ass.
see... wasn't that uncalled for... yes it was. quite wanton... if i do say so myself.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Yes that is a possible and quite typical story. I too have used similar method.
But hey, almost all methods work for someone.
Just the way you view it.
I just don't see what's wrong with taking care of the heckler yourself? I have handled plenty of hecklers through confrontation and never have I had any negative consequences. The heckler learns his/ her lesson, the audience have a great time, my performance finishes beautifully, what else could I want?

I have a number of practical and ethical concerns, but what sparked this whole thing is that I don't like the attitude you expressed. These were your words:

"she tried to make a fool of you... Why don't you have the right to do it back?"

There was a dark time in my life where that was a significant part of my worldview. I ended up facing a lot of problems that were avoidable. And they were my fault. What you said could easily be interpreted as, "an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth."

All too often, it leads to a self-perpetuating cycle of one-upmanship. I've been down that road before. I don't need to walk it again with audience members.

No. I don't mean "big words" like so solipsist, pharmacopoei, husbandry, or any other word deeply ingrained in my brain from SAT prep long ago, I mean swear words... thus the quotation marks.

Then why didn't you just say "profanity?"

Swearing in a debate is unnecessary and childish. It affects the tone of what you are saying and can emotionally affect whoever you are debating with.
"Oh quit your ****ing crying." is not being blunt. It's just being a dick. you could have just as easily said "Oh quit your crying" couldn't you? If you have to resort to swearing during an intellectual debate then i would say you have less self-control than those who butt-heads with hecklers.

If you make a word taboo, it's going to be used. The actual usage of profanity is a very poor barometer of intelligence or maturity.

Besides, I don't consider this a debate. Never did. It's just another argument because it's not important enough to be considered a debate.

Once again my dear boy, I am not claiming a moral high ground, and obviously neither are you.

That's a laugh and a half. You go out of your way to point out how much of a dick I am, and actually say, "I'm trying to keep things civil." Better to keep your mouth shut about that sort of thing. Something I learned the hard way years ago.

To repeat myself, a rich man doesn't need to tell you he's rich.

I am not trying to make you my enemy. I was merely defending my point of view, which was bluntly attacked by you, without much elaboration I might add.
And aren't you the one who is consistently berated for having indecent attitude in the most petty of discussions? and you tell me to check mine...

I never say anything I'm not prepared to back up. People ***** about me a lot because I don't give a rat's ass about their feelings. I'm not exactly a Culture of Nice type.

And I attacked your idea because I thought saying "eye for an eye" was stupid. I made an analogy to make that point and you cried about it. You claim that you're more put off by the fact that I used the word "****" but I don't buy that. I could have completely omitted the profanity and I doubt your reaction would have been any different.

Saying things like "well... your funeral" are threats aren't they? are those necessary? really?
You better grow up kid or i'll find you and kick you ass.
see... wasn't that uncalled for... yes it was. quite wanton... if i do say so myself.

I wasn't making threats. I'm just saying that this won't end well. I've argued these same points a million times before. And I don't see this ending well if you want to continue harping on my perceived character flaws. Never does. Once again, you overreacted.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
I am typing on an iPod so I will keep it short and will not quote.
1. Could you explain those concerns as I still don't understand your point of view. My method of handling hecklers works perfectly well. I wouldn't say it can be directly quoted as "an eye for an eye" but more like "actions have consequences. You try to screw me over, then be ready for karma." I repeat, my method is not to cause as much embarassement to them As they tried to do to you, but just handling them in such a way which let's them understand through experience that it is not okay to do what they did. I just don't feel talking to them does that. I apologiZe is my first post made it seem like I was suggesting to cause total embarassment to thE heckler.
2. The word profanity slipped my mind at that point
3.Alright then. I do possess a higher moral ground.
4. DebAte, argument, discussion, what ever you call it, would it hurt to be a little more tactful?
5. Yes profanity does not measure maturity or intelligence, but in this case it measures taclessness which is something you want to get over in life. Thiuh you Are probably different in real life, incase you aren't, you won't succeed in life by being a douche.
6. My pet peeve is when people make definite statements without elboration, especially when worded so rudely. That was mainly what I was pissed at. If you elaborated your point, I would have been more than happy to discuss or perhaps even agree with you. But due to the fact that you didn't and you Mediocrely attempted to mesh eloquence with t
profaniy, I couldn't help but get annoyed.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in life? What's your occupation? And do you speak he same way you here?
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I am typing on an iPod so I will keep it short and will not quote.

Fair enough.

1. Could you explain those concerns as I still don't understand your point of view. My method of handling hecklers works perfectly well. I wouldn't say it can be directly quoted as "an eye for an eye" but more like "actions have consequences. You try to screw me over, then be ready for karma." I repeat, my method is not to cause as much embarassement to them As they tried to do to you, but just handling them in such a way which let's them understand through experience that it is not okay to do what they did. I just don't feel talking to them does that. I apologiZe is my first post made it seem like I was suggesting to cause total embarassment to thE heckler.

That makes things clearer. Thank you.

My main practical concern then is that the gate is still open for reprisal. I've dealt with some... interesting individuals. And one thing I've noticed is that they are not above vengeance. I've found it through experience to be cleaner and more efficient when I minimize my own obvious involvement in their being taken down a notch. If I'm the one to put them in their place or however else you want to express that, then I make myself a target and the cycle of one-upmanship begins. If however I work a little more subtly, let them damn themselves with their own actions and words, then I make it almost impossible for them to tell who they should get back at. And in the case of a whole crowd turning on them, social pressure will shut them up because more often than not, people like this are afraid to stand alone. It's not a comfortable feeling, let me tell you.

3.Alright then. I do possess a higher moral ground.

No, my point was that if you have to say you're acting differently than me, you've lost the advantage. There have been times when I agreed with people, but as soon as they started saying things like, "Unlike you, I'm trying to keep things civil," I wanted to slap them stupid. It's obnoxious and no one wants to hear it.

4. DebAte, argument, discussion, what ever you call it, would it hurt to be a little more tactful?

Yes.

Joking aside, I don't respect magicians enough to want to be especially tactful with them. I honestly have a very negative impression of magicians in general.

5. Yes profanity does not measure maturity or intelligence, but in this case it measures taclessness which is something you want to get over in life. Thiuh you Are probably different in real life, incase you aren't, you won't succeed in life by being a douche.

To quote Dragon Age, "I can be friendlier if I so choose. Alas, desiring to be more intelligent does not make it so." I used to be nicer to magicians. Then I realized that over 90% of them are a bunch of backstabbing ignorant jackals with entitlement complexes and egos larger but much more fragile than my own.

6. My pet peeve is when people make definite statements without elboration, especially when worded so rudely. That was mainly what I was pissed at. If you elaborated your point, I would have been more than happy to discuss or perhaps even agree with you. But due to the fact that you didn't and you Mediocrely attempted to mesh eloquence with t
profaniy, I couldn't help but get annoyed.

Well again, you're asking me to care about offending someone, but you're all just text on a computer screen to me, as I am to you.

Just out of curiosity, what do you do in life? What's your occupation? And do you speak he same way you here?

I used to busk professionally, but it's been going badly since this past winter. I'm probably going to get a part-time job doing cooking demonstrations for the Giant Eagle Market District to make ends meet. I'm also doing shows at the Pittsburgh Public Marketplace and am working my way into performing on the convention circuit doing character shows appropriate to the convention's theme. I also do readings at the Tin Front Cafe (anyone reading this, if you're in the Pittsburgh area, go eat there, it's a fantastic vegetarian restaurant and bar).

And if you're asking if I curse like a sailor, yes. Assuming I'm not on a job where that could get me in trouble. I show much more courtesy and professionalism to my clients and audiences than I do magicians for the reasons I described above. There is a mind reading show I developed where I do swear quite a bit, but it's an adult audience and appropriate to the character I'm portraying.
 
May 3, 2008
1,146
4
Hong Kong
My main practical concern then is that the gate is still open for reprisal.

That makes sense.
I'll just wait till that uncomfortable situation comes up and then I'll see if i can start to understand.

No, my point was that if you have to say you're acting differently than me, you've lost the advantage.
yes... and no. Yes putting yourself on higher moral ground does make you seem a bit... yeah. But in some cases, when it is obviously true... then theres no harm in pointing it out. If one person argues with profanity and constantly belittles the other, while the other argues with points and elaboration... then wouldn't you say there is a difference between them? (not point us out by the way, just asking.)

Joking aside, I don't respect magicians enough to want to be especially tactful with them. I honestly have a very negative impression of magicians in general. .... Then I realized that over 90% of them are a bunch of backstabbing ignorant jackals with entitlement complexes and egos larger but much more fragile than my own.
I heard you say this before, but then why do you constantly come back to these forums to argue and belittle magicians? for the fun of it? to take us down a notch? If we are "a bunch of backstabbing ignorant jackals" wouldn't our community eventually blow over?

Well again, you're asking me to care about offending someone, but you're all just text on a computer screen to me, as I am to you.
On the internet you can do what ever you want can't you... what technology allows us to do.

My main practical concern then is that the gate is still open for reprisal.

That makes sense.
I'll just wait till that uncomfortable situation comes up and then I'll see if i can start to understand.

No, my point was that if you have to say you're acting differently than me, you've lost the advantage.
yes... and no. Yes putting yourself on higher moral ground does make you seem a bit... yeah. But in some cases, when it is obviously true... then theres no harm in pointing it out. If one person argues with profanity and constantly belittles the other, while the other argues with points and elaboration... then wouldn't you say there is a difference between them? (not point us out by the way, just asking.)

Joking aside, I don't respect magicians enough to want to be especially tactful with them. I honestly have a very negative impression of magicians in general. .... Then I realized that over 90% of them are a bunch of backstabbing ignorant jackals with entitlement complexes and egos larger but much more fragile than my own.
I heard you say this before, but then why do you constantly come back to these forums to argue and belittle magicians? for the fun of it? to take us down a notch? If we are "a bunch of backstabbing ignorant jackals" wouldn't our community eventually blow over?

I used to busk professionally, but it's been going badly since this past winter. I'm probably going to get a part-time job doing cooking demonstrations for the Giant Eagle Market District to make ends meet.
Doesn't your life seem all eventful and fun.

Ah well.
Seems like this discussion, argument, debate, whatever you call it, is coming near an end.
Had a jolly fun time. Thanks
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
yes... and no. Yes putting yourself on higher moral ground does make you seem a bit... yeah. But in some cases, when it is obviously true... then theres no harm in pointing it out. If one person argues with profanity and constantly belittles the other, while the other argues with points and elaboration... then wouldn't you say there is a difference between them? (not point us out by the way, just asking.)

Because having to explain it always comes across as holier-than-thou. As big of an egomaniacal jerk-off as I am, even I know better than that. Perhaps you should read some Robert Greene sometime.

I heard you say this before, but then why do you constantly come back to these forums to argue and belittle magicians? for the fun of it? to take us down a notch? If we are "a bunch of backstabbing ignorant jackals" wouldn't our community eventually blow over?

In the words of Harry Dresden, people suck. But persons are always worth it.

You may notice that I don't come here that often. Mostly because I realized I can do more with the occasional visit than daily arguments that amount to little more than beating my head against a wall. That and some other... more personal concerns. I'd rather leave it at that because I don't want to make the details of private correspondence public.

As for the community blowing over, not necessarily. Look how long the Magic Cafe has been around. This place looks like Patagonia next to that cesspool. If that sea of losers, wannabes, has-beens, and never-was's can last as long as it has, you guys should have no problem keeping your heads above water.

Doesn't your life seem all eventful and fun.

I can't tell if that was meant to be sarcastic or not. If it was, then you're a hypocrite.
 
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