Most people have no capacity to judge what you're asking by ear. It's also fairly unrelated to what fridoliina said. Talent spans far more than just singing ability. Even someone that's not a classically trained singer can put on a good show. Look at ... well, most of popular music. One of the best shows I've ever seen was Bright Eyes in DC, and even I can tell that he's not a great singer.
Pity Magic Isn't as Easy as Music
- Thread starter William Draven
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The singing was pretty good overall, technically she probably could have done it better but considering the show was about 2 hours and every song was a spectacular show and dance number she did pretty good.
Anyways as i said, im not a fan of Lady gagas music or pop music in general and after hearing her songs being played at every club for the last two years i almost cant stand her songs.
But i was very impressed with her and the show itself because it was pretty crazy and entertaining and i was pretty impressed how she keept the crowd of 30.000 people on their feet for two hours.
Since this thread was about musical composition, I referred to musical talent.
I have no problem admitting that the biggest names in pop are top notch performers and showmen/women, but when it comes to musical talent, that's a different story.
I dont really think that you need to have great technical ability when it comes to singing or playing an instrument to have a lot of musical talent.
I can safely say that "bright eyes" are a pretty good well rounded group. And about the singer, most of their songs are like poetry, hahah there are times where I think he is just reading the lines
.But overall I do think that "Bright eyes" brings good music to the table, and the lead singer Connor Oberst ( I hope Im remembering his name right) is a pretty talented guy.
I can safely say that "bright eyes" are a pretty good well rounded group. And about the singer, most of their songs are like poetry, hahah there are times where I think he is just reading the lines
But overall I do think that "Bright eyes" brings good music to the table, and the lead singer Connor Oberst ( I hope Im remembering his name right) is a pretty talented guy.
He's very talented. But his voice is not amazing. His talent lies in his songwriting and composition.
Yeah, but being a good singer and good intepreter are different things, I like how he "interprets" his songs
Actually... some artists need more credit than they're getting. Lady Gaga for instance. One of the greatest performers of our day. Over the top? sometimes... But at the same time, musically, she is one of the most talented as well. She can play piano like Elton John. Has an incredible voice, unfortunately what the radio hears are the dance hits, which have a tendency to drown out the voice.
I don't believe one is so important without the other. This can go for any art. In Magic. It's not so impressive to see someone perform a perfect pass. or any other sleight perfectly. It's about the connection to the audience. That's all it is with any art.
Art is about connecting with your audience. Your emotion and passion is sometimes more important than your talent. although, your talent often helps you to convey your emotion and passion to the audience.
Composing magic and music are often the same level skill. Have the solid foundations in music, you are bound to be able to right a song in no time. 10 a day even. Have the solid foundations in magic, you should be able to create card tricks left and right. What make those songs special are that they're written in the same 4 chords. a lot of the time it's the lyrics behind it, or the personality behind it. A magic trick, like the 4 chords to music, is often just a double lift or top change, a false shuffle or count, a pass, simple gimmick of some sort. I could be wrong.. But to close, it's about your familiarity with the art. The more familiar you are with it, and the more time you've invested into the study of the art and it's creations of other artists, the easier it is for you to create works of your own. simple as that.
Here we are again throwing the word around like candy
Just a note that I know quite some really talented and well instructed musicians, but they are unable to compose something. Even if they try.
Here we are again throwing the word around like candy
If i think that art is when two farts collide, who are you to say im wrong?
Composing music, like magic, isn't that simple. Anyone can write 'a song' in half an hour, or come up with 'a magic trick' by just slinging a few sleights together. But supposing you don't want to come up with a song (note: any reference to music here can also refer to magic) for the sake of coming up with a song, suppose you want to write your music to be different and stand out from the generic musician. As a guitar player, I don't want people to think of me as some guy that bungs the same old four chords together, I want to bring something new to the field and give my audience a different experience. You compare the four chord progression to a top change, double lift, pass etc. but in my opinion, one shouldn't start with the sleights and build the effect, one should create an effect and find the method last. I see it the same for songwriting - decide what you want to convey and work inwards, don't pick your chords and find lyrics that fit.
And, incidentally, if non-musicians are becoming aware of the four chord progression and the similarity behind many songs, what's to stop them becoming aware of the same thing in terms of magic? True, less people are likely to see many close up magicians, and magicians keep their methods subtle unlike musicians, but with performances (and indeed tutorials) being readily available at the click of a button in this age of the internet, there's really very little to stop people from finding out. Yet another reason to stand out and be original.
If playing piano like Elton John is the pinnacle of musical talent, then I worry for music.
I mean absolutely no disrespect to the man, he's one of my favourite musicians, and I would be one of the happiest people in the world if I had his technical ability, but if we look at the great concert pianists of the past, and compare our so called "most talented" such as Elton John, and Lady Gaga, then society has taken quite a few steps back in music.
Your definition of art is an interesting one.
What about expressionism and abstract? What about Brechtian theatre? What about when music is played and no one is listening? What about when someone writes a poem, or paints a painting, and never shows anyone? No audience to connect with, so in those contexts, are they not art?
Wrong. Just, so very wrong. A magic trick is not a piece of art. A song is (most of the time). Don't even put them near the same level as each other. That's like saying, "Having the solid foundations of a language, you are bound to be able to write a poem in no time."
Musical chords are in no way, shape or form analogous to sleights.
You guys misunderstood... completely.
First off, Elton John was a concert pianist. He's been known to play some of the greatest concertos ever written. Rachmaninoff's Second to be exact, and that's no easy task.
I'm not just speaking out of my... yeah... I've been a serious student of music for well over 12 years of my life. I never said it's easy to make a "great" piece of music or a great piece of magic. If you don't see magic as a piece of art, I think something's wrong with your view on magic.
I do also believe if you have the solid foundations of a language, you can write a poem. NOTICE again, I never said a great poem. I realize that writing a great song or creating a great piece of magic should work itself inside out.
First off, Elton John was a concert pianist. He's been known to play some of the greatest concertos ever written. Rachmaninoff's Second to be exact, and that's no easy task.
I'm not just speaking out of my... yeah... I've been a serious student of music for well over 12 years of my life. I never said it's easy to make a "great" piece of music or a great piece of magic. If you don't see magic as a piece of art, I think something's wrong with your view on magic.
I do also believe if you have the solid foundations of a language, you can write a poem. NOTICE again, I never said a great poem. I realize that writing a great song or creating a great piece of magic should work itself inside out.
So what was the point you were trying to make?
can you source that? I've never heard about his concert playing before.
or maybe my definition of art is different to yours, and is one that doesn't define a magic trick as a piece of art.
i've read it in a couple biographies on him but, since word of mouth only goes so far, Wikipedia!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elton_John
the point I was trying to make was that yes, it's easier said than done to make a "Great" piece of magic. Same is applied to a great piece of music. But, when you reach a certain point, through long vigorous study, it becomes much easier to create, in either art. because you are then so familiar with the foundations involved. I've only been in magic a few years, and with the knowledge I have, I can create a trick... the tricks suck and aren't worth anything, but I can still get a beginning, middle, and end to a trick. now, there's a special mastery or gift that goes into creating unique, original, beautiful works.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elton_John
the point I was trying to make was that yes, it's easier said than done to make a "Great" piece of magic. Same is applied to a great piece of music. But, when you reach a certain point, through long vigorous study, it becomes much easier to create, in either art. because you are then so familiar with the foundations involved. I've only been in magic a few years, and with the knowledge I have, I can create a trick... the tricks suck and aren't worth anything, but I can still get a beginning, middle, and end to a trick. now, there's a special mastery or gift that goes into creating unique, original, beautiful works.