t11.bulletin - SHINOBI CONTROL by Emran Riaz : Now Available

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jonraiker, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. Yeah I completely understand that, My point being:

    People are growing more skeptical to magic from day to day, while I agree that most people doesn't search "magic secrets on the internet" it's a fact that tv programs like "the masked magician" makes them skeptical towards our magic. I am kinda getting tired that "the masked magician" topic arises whenever someone asks me about magic. But that is for another day.

    The problem with skeptical people is that they constantly question things we do and the problem that I see with today's magicians is that we tend to overcomplicate things, take for example this sleight: the spectator is touching a card, the magician twist his whole hand with the spread to take the card, he twists it again to show it face up, and then once again he twists the hand to put the card face down.

    Too much is happening just to make a simple action of turning the card and that may tip the spectator that something "else" it's happening.

    Another example of this would be the "groove electric switch" I mean, you fan the cards you put in the selection, and you close the fan. wait what? Couldn't you just put the card in the deck witouth doing the fan and closing it with two fingers? Oh yeah, we are magicians I forgot.

    That's why in my opinion sleights like the convincing control or the classic pass are the way to go for me. They simplify things for the spectator and the magician and that leaves me room to think about my patter and how to entertein the audience.

    But of course, I only gave my personal view on the sleight and why it doesn't works for me, I'm pretty sure that for other people it will work wonders and it will be a sleight that will go directly into their performing repertoire :).
     
  2. Tokyo! You are my hero!

    I could not have said it better myself... great post!

    Actually this topic as a whole is awesome.. maybe it can teach magicians to really step outside the "magicians box." It seems the more we learn about our art, the less we seem amazed when we see a fellow magician preform for us. We analyze too much which is bad and good. We now view effects like "okay there was a top change, a pass, okay now he palmed it... and bang - the reveal!"

    Remember how amazed when we saw our first magic trick? We weren't looking for how it was done. We just enjoyed it.

    Remember our target audience is laymen. I mean yeah, it's great to impress a magican. But laymen are our workhorse.

    Six - wassup bud? Hell yeah - misdirection and video are not compatible.

    Mike - great points as well - thank you!

    Certain moves fit certain styles. If this move fits your style, go for it. I'm not going to hold a gun to your head and tell you to use my move instead of a pass!
     
  3. I like the look of it, but I'm currently putting a moratorium on buying new material until I've thoroughly worked through what I already have. I'm sure it'll still be there when I'm ready :)
     
  4. It fooled me when I saw it. I think it looks good but I can see why it wouldn't be for everyone. I think the move is most at home with people that have a bit of a flourishy style to their magic. The move has some style to it so if nothing else about how you handle your cards has style then it may be a red flag but I mean if you don't think its fishy, don't act like its fishy, your spectators shouldn't think its fishy either.
     
  5. ...woot? only fooling ourselves because we or i saw some descrepancy on the move? ...man where here to give out opinion that might help you to do some adjustments on the move not just form a point of view of magician but as a layman ...it didn't fool me the first time i saw the video ...why not do another vid of shinobi control ...and eddie if i am an ignorant,this is bad because if an ignorant saw the move in by just watching it but still gave a contructive critism on it then who are you then? if you can't take an opinion go to a site for a cheap trick:p ...
     
  6. ALN, the move is very sexy - just relax and use it. If I was in person it woulda flown by you as well. If it flew by some top magicians who live and breath technique, and they are giving it their seal of approval - must be a great move...

    Again, just like Tokyo said, if it was a 1-on-1 for a Top Change or a Tilt of some sort, it would have gotten the same heat.

    The move doesn't need any improvement whatsoever and we do not need to re-film it.

    We already knew before we release the video that magicians like you would try to pick the move apart. We were ready for that.

    Take the advice of your fellow theory11 buddies and scroll back and read what they have said. They make great points.
     
  7. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because some 'top magicians' like it doesn't mean it's good.
    It's his opinion if he doesn't like it, and you should respect that. I think it's a good move, but I'll stick with my double lift or top change thank you very much.
     
  8. All in all if the move fits you.. go for it! This is my contribution!
     
  9. That pretty much resumes everything discussed here, regardless of the misdirection needed of whatever, if you think that the move suits you, for all means go for it :).
     
  10. I study technique pretty much everyday at this point. So ya, I caught it on the first view, but I learned a while ago that studying card technique, this kind of thing happens. That's no reason for me to down this. Very simple misdirection covers this move. But like with anything, I don't think anyone should take the move at face value. Toy with it. See what comes of it. See if you can make it better for yourself.

    I happen to like this. It doesn't seem that diffficult, and it kinda feels like the convincing control blind folded, flipped front to back and turned upside down. I'm already thinking of ways to screw around with this one.

    Not bad Emran. Hope to see more from you man.
     
  11. I think the move itself looks very fishy. There is a HUGE drawbacks in this control:
    1.You pretty much can't give the card to hold onto or sign to spectator.
    2.It can't be done surrounded.
    3.As I said, it looks very fishy (I mean the manner of turning the card over). Does anybody turn over the card like this? I mean with Formula 1 car speed.
    So, with that said, if I were the creator of this control, I'd work on smoothness, if it's really possible in this move.
     
  12. I don't quite understand everyone's issues with this move. I was working on it all weekend. I showed it to a few close friends all of them were at different angles. I even had someone looking over my left shoulder. Every single one of them has seen my magic a lot. They've seen "how i turn cards over." This sleight flew by them, every single time.

    The only thing i had trouble with was the sleight didn't quite "click" with my hands right away. But after working on it you develop a cadence to the move. After you develop that cadence, (which i think should be throughout all magic) you can really hone in on the nuances of this move.
     
  13. ...no offense erman, but really darky is also right about the turning of the cards over, lightning fast and not very convincing,tokyo you are the one who is not thinking out of the box ...we are here to strenghten the move by giving some constructive critism on it but you are still not gettin' it ...all i'm saying is try to make an adjustments beacause it's not so smooth and convincing, and why not re-edit the film if its erman's move he can do it again easily right? but next time with smoothness and clarity ...and man your not gettin' the point about youtube ...even if your move is not or never been revealed in youtube,still the laymen still knows the secret of a magician and that made them skeptic abou a trick or magic, that's why a poorly performed magic or move like this can be easily detected again due to it's lack of convincer and smoothness ...performance is a must if its magic we're talkin:p
     
  14. I really don't get why people are talking about the "unnaturalness" of the move. What unnaturalness? There is none! Believe me when I say I have seen spectators reverse cards like that before (when they're reversing a reversed card in a spread, ect.). It's really not that unnatural. I think it will fly right by everyone with ease.

    Just my thoughts.

    Cheers
     
  15. .. darky you cant be serious?

    1, the card can be given out and signed..
    2, it can be done totally surrounded even upside down..=\
    3, you can do it slow.. fast, hyper jet.. doesn't matter.. all depends on your style thats how i turns cards over so.. i use it like this.. always worked for me..

    give it a chance try it out on your friends..
     
  16. 1. Yes you can.
    2. Neither can a pass. But this move can be done surrounded.
    3. Yes, Emran turns a card over with Formula-1 speed...his family actually co-created the Formula-1 Circuit.
    4. If you think it needs more smoothness, then YOU work on it, refine it, make it your own...etc etc. After all, isn't that how other moves are thought up anyways?
    5. If you like it, buy it. Use it. If you DON'T like it, don't buy it. Don't use it. Simple as that.

    From the t11 forum rules - (Not directed at you Darky)

    On RESPECTING OTHERS:

    * Treat others within the forum respectfully, courteously, and professionally. Criticism should be kept constructive at all times. Do it, to it.

    ...no offense erman, but really darky is also right about the turning of the cards over, lightning fast and not very convincing,tokyo you are the one who is not thinking out of the box ...we are here to strenghten the move by giving some constructive critism on it but you are still not gettin' it ...all i'm saying is try to make an adjustments beacause it's not so smooth and convincing, and why not re-edit the film if its erman's move he can do it again easily right? but next time with smoothness and clarity ...and man your not gettin' the point about youtube ...even if your move is not or never been revealed in youtube,still the laymen still knows the secret of a magician and that made them skeptic abou a trick or magic, that's why a poorly performed magic or move like this can be easily detected again due to it's lack of convincer and smoothness ...performance is a must if its magic we're talkin:p

    That is SERIOUSLY borderline disrespect...This is just so frustrating... :(
     
  17. What's with the negative views for the SHINOBI CONTROL?!

    IMHO, I LIKE it! And I SERIOUSLY DON'T find it suspicious AT ALL!!

    Here's another example, THE BIDDLE TRICK - Do YOUR spectators find it unnatural and fishy as to why you NEED to count the 5 cards, WITH HALF A DECK UNDERNEATH IT?! - OH WAIT, DON'T tell me that it (couting the 5 cards, with half a deck underneath) goes unnoticed by the spectators, but turning over a card would... that really doesn't make much sense to me.

    I REALLY DON'T see how turning over a card can even be suspicious?! :confused:
     


  18. That's where patter comes in I believe.
     
  19. That may be so, but that's where the 'misdirection' comes in for the SHINOBI CONTROL. ;)
     
  20. With the Biddle trick, it's the presentation that makes it. Personally, I only have half the deck because I believe I cut near the selection. Then, because I'm not 100% sure if I hit it, I used 5 cards to give myself some leeway. I go through them aloud so everyone can hear/see each of them. Every move in that has motivation and reason.
     

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