t11.bulletin - SHINOBI CONTROL by Emran Riaz : Now Available

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jonraiker, Apr 30, 2010.

  1. I KNOW that, OBVIOUSLY! I'm just saying, from a spectator's point of view, you don't think they would find it suspicious (obviously, without telling you)...
     
  2. Sigh, alright, if someone posts a video of a live performance of the shinobi control and proves that the sight of the spectator can be turned away with misdirection while flipping the card face down then I will happily retract my words.

    Meanwhile the only thing that we are doing here is guessing.
     
  3. I'm not meaning misdirection in the traditional sense, but justification, hence the '' around the word, misdirection... "...Ok, we'll just turn over your card... it's the Queen of Diamonds, and I'll just turn it over, and we'll lose it back in the middle... pretty simple 'patter' that makes logical sense of why you're turning over the card.
     
  4. Again, we are just guessing, make a video and let's leave this thing cleared.
     
  5. Why can't you just use it yourself? Why do you have to have others do it?

    I can't believe how some of you are treating Emran. He's trying to help us out, and he's also a fellow magician. Why hate on brothers who are in this too? It's sad that it has ended up like this. I was experimenting with flipping a card over just like Emran in my practice. Looked normal to me, even did it on a couple of friends and they don't notice.

    I bet the people that are hating haven't even tried or gave it a chance. There is no "bad" move, it only is "bad" to you if it doesn't fit your style. If it doesn't fit your style, do not call the Shinobi a "bad" move. We should all respect Emran here for giving us a great control. Hell, we should respect all the artists that are supplying us with great material.

    Keep on going Emran! Hope you have more for us in store. It's just sad that some people just aren't appreciating it for what it really is. Hope everyone at least understands my viewpoint on this. If you disagree, by all means disagree, but this is a forum. There is a line where you are giving constructive criticism and being flat out disrespectful. Just be careful where some of you guys are going with this.

    Cheers,

    Casey
     
  6. "There are no bad tricks- only bad magicians"
    David Roth told me that once...
     
  7. Tsss, Im not "hating" I already said why this move doesn't works for me, and since the other guys were defending the sleight I just asked them to prove what they were saying.

    You guys are so emotional. I already said it, big props to Emran for creating the move, I myself will not use it, all that I asked for was for some proof to back up the notions you guys have. Because I am curious to see how the sleight works in real life. that's all.

    Jesus, for christ sakes, please, stop crying everybody, I am just trying to discuss he sleight in a respectful manner with you guys (if I failed to do so before, my apologies). There is no need for the whining, really.

    Mike Hankins already said it, if it suits you, buy it, if it doesnt suits, then don't buy it. Simple.

    Props again to Emran, I'm sure that this sleight will work wonders for magicians.
     
  8. Sorry for the confusion Justice, I wasn't directing the second part at you. My bad. I just don't like to see magicians hating on other magicians. That's what I was saying. But yeah people here get way too caught up into it and start to get emotional, ect. I don't like to get caught up in things on any site. Once again, sorry for the confusion! :)

    Casey
     
  9. Thanks man for clearing that out :p
     
  10. None of this is addressed at anyone in particular, just some thoughts.

    I mean its 5 bucks you learn a new sleight, a new force and a routine using it right? That sounds pretty fair to me. Its not for everyone, nothing is. If something came out that was so great everyone wanted to use it there would still be people who wouldn't want to use it simply because everyone else is.

    To me the valid reasons not to purchase it are:

    1: Its incongruent with your personal style. As in you don't do anything flourishy with your cards at all or your handling is intentional sloppy and inexperienced or just classy and clean.

    2. You just don't like how this particular sleight looks.

    3: You are happy with the arsenal that you already have. You already know 10 ways to control a card to the top, 20 ways to force a card etc. Tho I would argue there is still a routine included (which I'd wish was in the preview as well)

    4. You are broke. It happens :)

    Its like any other sleight in that if you act like you are doing some kind of move they will think you are. If it looks casual and you talk casually you really don't have anything to worry about. If a bunch of us magicians can look at it and not catch it the first time when we are expecting something to be done, then there is no reason, whatsoever, a layman should EVER put that much heat on your hands and even if they did they shouldn't catch anything at all. If they do then you really need to practice your new sleights more before you go rotating it into your routines and reconsider your presentation.

    If nothing else give the man the due respect for creating something new and useful. One of the best things about studying magic for me is how its constantly changing and growing so I always appreciate new material even if it doesn't suit my personal taste.
     

  11. LOL Mike - haha very funny stuff! I wish my family invented that. ;)

    But honestly, I mean c'mon... you guys are killing me here. If you like it, please use it until your fingers bleed. If you hate it, still use it but make it your own; refine it to your style if you want. Or otherwise just let the move go - there are 100,000 other controls I'm sure that will fit your style!

    Honestly I have been using the move for a very very long time. Sometimes I do it fast. Sometimes super slow. All depends - regardless I fool with it, you guys keep on with "the turnover looks fishy," but honestly from a spread that's how "I" turnover a card... this control was invented according to my style.

    I was asked to release it, and umm theory11 was a great place to do it with great people who will absorb the move and make it their own. Bottom line - either love it or leave it alone. :D
     
  12. Your arguments would possess much more validity if you typed properly and didn't use Ellipsis after virtually every sentence you type. Also, direct attacks on members, espically ones who aren't even the creators of the control gets you no where.

    If it didn't fool you the first time, why would it fool you the second time?




    Emran- I was at first skeptical of your move, but, I've been performing recently and I want to use a specific example to reinforce my new-found opinion:

    I perform Bill Goodwin's 'Off Balance Transpo' alot (mainly the first phase) and for a while I couldn't figure out a way to control the cards, because a shift is needed and my classic pass looks like poop and a turnover pass or circle shift just didn't seem right. So I performed the trick a few times using a Hermann pass, and I did it completely open, with no body turn or excessive lingering of my right hand after the shift. And everytime it flew right by the spectators.

    So my new position is that if a move is done naturally, with no suspicion aroused, it will be successful 99% of the time, the other 1% being those nerds like us who waste away studying sleight of hand:)

    So overall, very good move and congratulations on getting your name out there. Hope to see more in the future!
     
  13. Agreed all day.

    I'm having some issues with being clear today but let me try anyway.

    Relevant story, I had this 14 year old guy show me two tricks one time and he fooled me completely even with me analyzing him looking for moves and stuff. I showed him a trick I made up of simple elementary moves any card guy should know about and offered to trade him.

    He had no idea what I was talking about when I tried to explain the moves in my trick to him. (" Ok do you know how to control a card to the top of the deck? No? Ok, so do you know what in jogging a card is? No?!" etc.)

    When he explained his tricks to me it was so simple I fell over. I was looking for him to use a force, he simply showed me a card in a way that he could look at it while I was looking at the card so I couldn't see him looking at it as well. He would almost blatantly take a card from the bottom of the deck and place it on the top (he literally didn't know any "sleights" at all) as I'm busy counting a handful of cards into a pile.

    I'd like to consider myself a move monkey but I got to say after giving it some thought, the sleight itself is often like your contingency plan. Your misdirection and everything should be on point so that they only look at your hands when you want them to. So its like in the unlikely event that while you're talking and directing them they see out of the corner of their eye some movement it won't look to be anything suspicious or unnatural. I guess I'm just saying I should rethink my practice methods as I spend 95% of my practice time working on a move that should, in theory, be seen maybe 10% of the time.

    tl;dr when your misdirection is on point even your worst sleight is invisible. Card to mouth is a shining example of this.
     
  14. Just to add, though: misdirection should always be the icing on the cake, and never the cake.
     
  15. hmmm. not in every case.

    Card under glass, card to mouth, splash bottle production from coin vanish, etc.
     
  16. I believe there is a difference between misdirection and directing attention elsewhere. If we take a classic example of asking a question when doing the pass. You are basically taking all eyes off the frame that is your hands and the cards. However on the other hand something like card to mouth the card being pushed in is framed in such away that the attention is directed to the frame and the move is happening "backstage'.
     
  17. #77 AlexanderB, May 4, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2010
    Thank you very much for info. I understood what I've written wrong. First of all, it can and has to be done surrounded - that was my fault. Yes, of course it can be given to a spectator to sign, but the way you put the card back into the deck is strange, I think. About the smoothness (I mean not only smoothness, about speed too) - the first half of this move can be done smooth and pretty slow, but the second part... I guess you understand what I'm talking about (or is it me who doesn't understand it right?). But besides of that, the move IS good. I would really use it, it's just about those nuances. Thanks again. And sorry, Emran, if my words did hurt you, I didn't want that :)
    - Alexander.
     
  18. nah dont worry... it hards for words to hurt me.. i luv you all <3 :D
     
  19. Fair point, but I would submit that timing, rather than misdirection, plays a bigger role. The rhythm of the effect, and its beats, and so on... I honestly don't think you need a spectator to directly look away to, say, put their card in your mouth.

    There's an effect in Osterlind's book Mystique, one of many I take advantage of, in which he deliberately picks up a name marker at a dinner table, examines it, and puts it down again - twice! He then proceeds to nail write a prediction on the card, and puts it down again, and then reveals it - and no-one ever remembers that he ever handled the card.

    I've done the same thing with a fellow magician's card box. Picked it up, played with it, stared at it while talking, put it down, talked, picked it up, nail wrote the thought, put it down again in front of him. His first question after examining the box was, "When did you pick up the box?"
     
  20. I am all on your side emran but you can only sign the face of the card not the back.also you can do it surrounded but not upside down.yes your right you can do it at any speed you like.by the way I loved the trick!
     

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