The Downfall of Dan and Dave's 'Queens'

James Wise Magic

Elite Member
Dec 28, 2007
I personally think you need to bring them back. I have made the 4 queens vanish flawlessly and it gets like "Oh cool" reaction (which I hate, it's like: I saw what you did or I don't get it but cool" which is annoying) but when I bring them back, that's when they go nuts.
Dec 10, 2007
yeah they do but if they all vanish the spec will want to search the deck, so the reproduction is a clean up... in a way:D

If you are transitioning from the queens to collectors, you shouldnt have any trouble doing the transition. Ive NEVER had a spectator ask me to see the deck after they all vanish... and i perform this a lot.
Sep 24, 2008
Bavaria, Germany
I feel that the big mistake with that trick is when they bring them back at the end.
the whole point of the trick is that the queens vanished and when u make them appear at the end it makes it less magical and kinda says, "hey, its sleight of hand, they never vanished!"

you are actually are thinkin in a toooo deep way of deception.
Your audiences brains are not trained in deception, so you will have a hard time, finding a layman, who thinks stuff like this, after you have reappeared the queens.

I wouldn´t say that the Bucks style is not magical and just a showoff of skill....their style is just directly in the face and more directed to the eyes of magicians than to the eyes of laymen...which is what I kind of prefere.
The Skillshowoff into all their handlings and the whole thing about showing that those deck of cards is such a "slave" of their hands...totally fits into it.

Maybe The Queens is not the most magical effect of the Trilogy....same thing goes for The Collectors.....and to name a whole other magician.....Collectors: Redux by Kevin Ho also has not a little piece of magical aspect into it....but it is meant to be like this. If this doesn´t fit your style than don´t perform it.
There are so many other effects that should work for you ...even on the Trilogy. The first time I saw the Tivo 2.0 or the Twinsplit Remix performed by Dave I was dashing my head onto my keyboard screaming "oouuu myy gooosh!"...although I knew how it was done....just because the magic takes place within those tricks, because it directly show´s things that can not possibly happen.

Magic happens in the eyes of your there heads...

Spectators as laymen will NEVER think as far as the magician himself referable to the effect of a do not be afraid of spectators who shout at you just because, you´ve just reappeared those queens.

As somebody correctly mentoined: The Queens without a reappear of those ladys in any kind of fashion..would be like a bad cliffhanger for your the ending of "Matrix Revolutions" or.....the ending of every single episode of "24" or....the ending of the first season of "lost" or....the ending of my cheese sandwich now....I´m finished eating ....damn it..

Sep 20, 2008
As somebody correctly mentoined: The Queens without a reappear of those ladys in any kind of fashion..would be like a bad cliffhanger for your the ending of "Matrix Revolutions" or.....the ending of every single episode of "24" or....the ending of the first season of "lost" or....the ending of my cheese sandwich now....I´m finished eating ....damn it..

ahh, the joy of actually finding that 'quote' button after 3 months in the community.


anyways, as stated before, if you have seen the prestige, you'd know that the appearance is crucial.

Remove magician eyes for a moment.

"Hold on a second,one by one the queens vanished. Visually... where the Flip did they- Oh, there they are!"

something along those lines shud run through ur spectators heads.
Nov 20, 2007
Sydney, Australia
Just like to point out that just because a spectator doesn't go through the same thought process in depth doesn't mean it doesn't affect them at all. I don't think scientifically about gravity, but it still affects me, just as I don't notice every nuance in a routine, but psychologically it can have an effect as a convincer or in many other roles.
Sep 20, 2008
i have first hand experience with this.

some guy in youtube exposed a Pen vanish Which im going to politely expose as well (since the video is still up there, and i could probably dig that up if you wanted me to, so therefore im not really breaching any copyright laws for exposure or whatever)

anyways, the Pen is basically attached to a 'oull'. Specifcally the cap.

what i tend to do is do an ACR routine, hand them the pen (and im still holding the cap) put the cap back on, and vanish it.

an almost immediate reaction is "whoa, where did it go?" or "its up your sleeves".

Since its a pull, even if i push my sleeves up, it wont fall down. but that isnt the point.

My point being is that the Pen is vanished, and an immediate reaction is "where did it go?"

when i started performing this, i couldnt re-produce the pen at all without jamming my left hand on my right sleeve. i extended the pull, so that its longer and i can pull it out with my right hand. now whenever i perform it (just as a slight trick) i can reproduce it again (with a little misderiection)

The fact of the matter is that reproducing the pen later on (and letting them examining it without the cap) gives it more credibility, and that 'magic' atmosphere that im aiming for.

i made the pen vanish, i made it re-appear too.
Sep 15, 2008
I've owned the Trilogy since it first came out but only recently started to really crack down and study it.

The Queens is a beautiful piece of magic. Think about it for a second:

Each queen visually vanishes, one by one, leaving you with nothing but a deck of cards. Then, almost as soon as it started, each queen appears at the same time right in front of them.

The reapperance at the end does not hurt the effect in any way. Maybe 1 out of every ten spectators might say "Well, they never really vanished at all." But those are the spectators that don't believe in magic, the kind that have a method for every trick you do. But the other nine....

....pure magic.

- Frank
Dec 14, 2007
This is actually a great question - the kind that makes a difference between a trick and magic.

While the choice to bring them back or not IS an opinion, the affect that choice has on the audience is a very real. I think a great example comes from the egg bag. The Egg bag is an awful awful trick - done poorly. It can also be one of the most entertaining and mystifying pieces of magic when done well.

Magicians have long debated whether or not to bring the egg back at the end.

While there is no "right" answer, what is important is that you understand the implications of your choice and that the effect/affect you want is intentional.

Bringing them back does resolve a dissonance and the audience is more likely to feel relaxed at the end. Nothing wrong with that. But there is something beautiful about leaving a question unanswered. When the egg does not return, that stays with people. They think about it. They worry about ti. They take that feeling home with them.

Also not a bad thing.

I perform a version of the Cannibal cards where the Kings vanish at the end. I will on occasion bring them back. When I do, I feel cheap and dirty. Like a settled for the easy path. The audience finds the reappearance magical and funny, but the feeling, the vibe is different than before.

So, the question is an excellent one. And the answer will make a difference. However, it is up to you to decide what you want that difference to be.

Brad Henderson
Sep 20, 2008
i'll perform the queens without the vanish on the end (unless they ask)

i'll post feedback here. x

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
First off did you not have a video of you performing the queens?

Edit: ah yes here it is
OH and heres a thread where yo say the queens is your favorite trick

just saying

and secondly what a great attitude to have towards your spectators that their "buffoons" for believing something happened.

Yes, that was in my D&D phase. It wore off on me the more I watched them and their work.

You're taking my buffoon comment slightly out of context. I mean, I don't think anyone would genuinely and fully believe that Mr. Magician just made (insert object here) vanish completely without a trace.
Sep 22, 2007
nice luu nice lol and mike goykes point was totally pownage to Kras just my 2 cents


Aug 31, 2007
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
There is no downfall in this trick, it is a good trick, what more can you ask.

It is up to you what you want to do with the queens, if you want to end clean as hell, you can just throw them away in the trash then give them the deck, then there isn't any queens left, and if they want to go through the trash, you can say they were another persons queens, it is that easy.


And if it is that big of a deal, change it or make your own variantion... I SAY CHYEA ERRDAY!
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