This Bothered Me Greatly

[Masta Ace]

I agree, "Strong Magic" is a great book, "Absolute Magic" by Derren Brown is another good one of the like. Anyways, someone said something about how if you are getting these reactions then you are not "good enough". I just want to say that I completely disagree. The thing is this, if you are performing in school, then you are performing for a crowd that is already competing with each other for attention. Therefor, they don't want other people stealing their thunder. That said however, not everyone is always wanting the spotlight, but school is not the best place to perform. These hecklers are feeling insecure and or challenged...however there is also the factor that they can steal your thunder and feel smart and recieve credit for knowing the method or source of your method and that has nothing to do with you or how you are presenting it, but it has more to do with the fact that they think they can win the approval of the group with their knowledge. They feel that they can use this opportunity to demonstrate a higher self value and it has nothing to do with you, these selfish people just see it as an opportunity for themselves. No worry though, this will often backfire. At any rate, it is out of the magician's control, this brand of heckler is out there, although these people are few and far between. They are out there and no matter how good you are you will encounter them, and the best piece of advice I could give you is if they want the attention. Well, then put the attention on them. Say, ok, Mr. Smarty Pants....YOU entertain us. That will usually shut them up pretty quickly. Take note of these people and don't perform for them again. They are a waste of time and they don't appreciate magic

 

[Sypris]

Nice post but man push Enter a few times and break that wall up.

 

[InfinitiM13]

This whole idea has made me very unhappy. I always have one or two people at my school sayin "I know how he does it" and it plain pisses me off. Then, of all things, they tell as many people as they can. I then noticed that when I'm doin Rubik's cubes and penspinning, I get more people at me than with magic. I think it is because they know it is possible to do those things when magic is seriously impossible.

For a while I thought my sleights sucked because my parents won't watch me do anything in front of them. Then I found out that my sleights are flawless, but this generation of kids and teens seem to just be complete jerks about us practicing to entertain them. I think that it is all pretty stupid.

 

[praetoritevong]

How could my presentation possibly hint towards Youtube tutorials?

I meant, it could hint that you don't treat magic with respect as an art (and again - not saying at all that this is true, in fact, I do not believe it - but perception can be a funny thing).

I dunno man, for someone to think that you learned something off YouTube - you know when you see a really great magician, any really great magician, you think wow, that guy has serious chops, and you appreciate it for what it is. Then, there are many YouTube magicians who are basically crap. I'm not saying you're at all in the latter group, but I'm wondering if there's anything in the way you perform and the way you engage with your audience that could take away the magic from magic, and make it look like you're just doing "random trix". Random tricks for the sake of showing tricks, that aren't convincing or magical in some way, feel like things learned from YouTube.

If it feels like a magician is performing magic, then that's an experience. But there are always guys who know like one card trick, you know that type of person? And when you see them perform, all you can think is, "Yeah, he definitely learned it off YouTube".

Again, not making any judgment about you personally - and I do believe that you have the greatest respect for magic.

 

[praetoritevong]

This whole idea has made me very unhappy. I always have one or two people at my school sayin "I know how he does it" and it plain pisses me off. Then, of all things, they tell as many people as they can. I then noticed that when I'm doin Rubik's cubes and penspinning, I get more people at me than with magic. I think it is because they know it is possible to do those things when magic is seriously impossible.

For a while I thought my sleights sucked because my parents won't watch me do anything in front of them. Then I found out that my sleights are flawless, but this generation of kids and teens seem to just be complete jerks about us practicing to entertain them. I think that it is all pretty stupid.

Can I just ask, out of curiosity, how do you know your sleights are flawless?

Regardless, it sounds like you've practiced your tricks, but like the majority of magicians, haven't studied the art of presentation well enough.

 

[Brad Henderson]

There will be an interesting column in the December issue of Magic Magazine that some of you will want to check out.

Brad Henderson

 

[Michael Kras]

Thank you for the heads up Mr. Henderson!

 

[Michael Kras]

I meant, it could hint that you don't treat magic with respect as an art (and again - not saying at all that this is true, in fact, I do not believe it - but perception can be a funny thing).

I dunno man, for someone to think that you learned something off YouTube - you know when you see a really great magician, any really great magician, you think wow, that guy has serious chops, and you appreciate it for what it is. Then, there are many YouTube magicians who are basically crap. I'm not saying you're at all in the latter group, but I'm wondering if there's anything in the way you perform and the way you engage with your audience that could take away the magic from magic, and make it look like you're just doing "random trix". Random tricks for the sake of showing tricks, that aren't convincing or magical in some way, feel like things learned from YouTube.

If it feels like a magician is performing magic, then that's an experience. But there are always guys who know like one card trick, you know that type of person? And when you see them perform, all you can think is, "Yeah, he definitely learned it off YouTube".

Again, not making any judgment about you personally - and I do believe that you have the greatest respect for magic.

Well, I try to make my magic feel as magical as possible, but it is very possible that, in the rush of the high school hallway just before class, I may have rushed it a little bit and didn't let the magical moments sink in and become memorable. He was definitely entertained and seemed amazed, but then he "popped the quesion" and it caught me off guard.. so much so that I almost got verbally defensive. However, I didn't... I simply said "No, actually, I've spent years studying great magic books and developing my own magic as well. In my opinion, Youtube is a terrible place to learn magic."

I tried not to get too preachy, so that's essentially what I told him.

Perhaps, instead of doing three effects rather quickly I should have done one the way I normally do in formal performance... nice and slow, letting each and every magical moment sink in.

 

[tokyoUW]

i hav had a situation where i think i was doin a ACR and the kid just said
"O well u just do a double lift"
i had nothing to say at that point really
people usually think its just a dupe but i was like HOLY S**T
youtube is kind of ruining our reputation as magicians and flourishers so idk
it needs to stop

Well, see, again, you are wrong. Youtube is not why you got busted on a double lift. For one, you can do an ENTIRE ACR without a single DL if you wanted to. A version of my ACR is 6 stages long, and I only use a single DL, and at the very beginning when I am turning over their signed card (to face down) for the very first time. But, I do it in such a simple way where the audience would have NO way of even fathoming that in this stage of the trick, I would be doing something "tricky".

EVERYTHING is your presentation... someone calling you on a DL means, you did it in a way where it was catchable, since an ACTUAL respectable magician, even if he saw it, wouldnt blurt it out to you.

 

[Morgan B]

This is a great thread - I have read the first few pages, and skimmed the last few - but I will read them. I just have a few points.

It is funny we are getting upset at "Youtube", when it is just a tool...a medium, like a DVD or a book - however, it is has been misused. It is not the fault of the medium, but those who use it. Many on this forum - posting video after video of "how is my dl?" or "(name of effect here) by (name of magician)" or to the latter - there name with someone else's effect. I digress, my point is this:

It is up to each individual to uphold the "magician's oath" and it drives me crazy when people say - oh, that oath is old thinking - as I realize they don't understand the small, yet important, impact it can have. It has turn magic from something mysterious ability to something that is a mysterious hobby...a hobby that has much easier access than it once did, or should.

However, I still believe that when magic is done well and it is for the right person - it is still incredible.

The "outs" you are facing are growing pains in your magic - the growing pains that come in the form of "hecklers", but are really not hecklers -just people trying to make sense of what they see.

I think the issue here is US not them - for every person I hear complain about "educated audiences" I wonder how many have videos on the internet.

I have been in magic a decade - and don't have one video of myself - if you have to ask why...refer to this topic.

Good thread!

 

[magicman384]

Youtube is only good for smosh and fred videos.( and sometimes nigahiga)

 

[Creeper]

This is why i do the clipshift all the time. Yeah, try to learn that from youtube.

 

[StevenLevitt]

I think some of us maybe to blame too. I have noticed a lot of videos which the title is the name of the effect they are performing, which seems to ruin it for me.

 

[Sir FansAlot]

Now, recently, several people were questioning the usefulness of originality. Well, let your spectator try and find effects like "I Know Kung Fu" or "Ouroboros" on YouTube. Not gonna happen. Just wanted to mention that as an aside.

Yeah, tumble gem, I saw that tutorial just three days ago! Just kidding but be aware that if some punk kids see that and go out and buy the DVD (??) it could be the next big tutorial.... Not really, what I believe is that great tricks go unnoticed to revealers. It's simply a matter of Karma.

Peace.

 

[praetoritevong]

lmao. Great switch, though I developed a way to do it in end grip rather than pinch.

It's from a book, incidentally, which is about $60. That's another thing - people want to reveal tricks that are sought after - you won't get internet kudos from likeminded parasites if they've never heard of, seen, or think highly of the effect, hence why YouTube exposure is the majority of the time on very common tricks.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with putting the name on tricks. I personally do it because I'm pedantic, so it's a habit thing, to label everything correctly always. It's crediting, doesn't really help exposure, and it's a good reference for people who are interested. I've never really seen the problem with putting the names of tricks. The main argument I've seen this is "People can easily look up tutorials" or "People will find the trick and make tutorials". The latter is invalid in my opinion as above, and the former is also invalid as per my earlier post.

Of course, if someone can put forward a sensible argument as to why I shouldn't put the trick title on the video...

 

[Sir FansAlot]

lmao. Great switch, though I developed a way to do it in end grip rather than pinch.

It's from a book, incidentally, which is about $60.

And a great book at that! When I first read the description I thought it was talking about end grip so started off that way. I did end up switching over the pinch, basically the opposite progression from yours then! Just goes to show that even if someone did put up a tut of something like that it would most likely end up completely different than yours or mine.

 

[Michael Kras]

lmao. Great switch, though I developed a way to do it in end grip rather than pinch.

It's from a book, incidentally, which is about $60. That's another thing - people want to reveal tricks that are sought after - you won't get internet kudos from likeminded parasites if they've never heard of, seen, or think highly of the effect, hence why YouTube exposure is the majority of the time on very common tricks.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with putting the name on tricks. I personally do it because I'm pedantic, so it's a habit thing, to label everything correctly always. It's crediting, doesn't really help exposure, and it's a good reference for people who are interested. I've never really seen the problem with putting the names of tricks. The main argument I've seen this is "People can easily look up tutorials" or "People will find the trick and make tutorials". The latter is invalid in my opinion as above, and the former is also invalid as per my earlier post.

Of course, if someone can put forward a sensible argument as to why I shouldn't put the trick title on the video...

I can't tell you how many times I've had people post on my Youtube videos asking for tutorials of the effects within the video. One guy recently asked me to do a tutorial of "The Queens" of the Buck Twin's DVD set and I refused. He badgered me for quite a while, saying he didn't want to spend $75 on the DVDs and me making one little tutorial would be easy. I said it would be completely unethical of me. He then sent me a private message on Youtube asking me to do it in secret! The nerve!!

 

[Sir FansAlot]

I can't tell you how many times I've had people post on my Youtube videos asking for tutorials of the effects within the video. One guy recently asked me to do a tutorial of "The Queens" of the Buck Twin's DVD set and I refused. He badgered me for quite a while, saying he didn't want to spend $75 on the DVDs and me making one little tutorial would be easy. I said it would be completely unethical of me. He then sent me a private message on Youtube asking me to do it in secret! The nerve!!

Maybe you should cave in and send him over a private tutorial, "but before I teach you the trick..." And tell him why you don't teach your magic to random strangers. But he seems like he really wants to learn it so.. Maybe even go on to say, the explanation is simple. And perform the same routine while making up a false explanation as you go along. Then when he can't get the third move down tell him he's not too smart and maybe should look for a different hobby.


Peace.

 

[praetoritevong]

LOL Fans. Interesting about the end grip huh? You're right about development though, it's great to find stuff out like this hehe.

And lol @ Fans' solution too. Good on Mike for doing the right thing of course - I've been asked for tutorials as well, and I've contemplated having some fun with that..