Tight Situation

Mar 27, 2011
44
0
So I have seen this happen a couple of times to me. But, yesterday I went to a party and brought my cards (obviously). I wanted to perform some effects but i couldnt because everytime I tried I was surrounded 360 degrees. So I just decided to do a bunch of flourishes, since laymen dont know the difference. They were completely satisfied, but I wasnt. I actually wanted to perform some effects. The day before that I was in school and did not have my deck. So I was given a borrowed deck, to my unfortunate luck it was a deck of red Bees. And i was also surrounded 360. So I just flourished and they liked it. So my question is: What effects are there that can be done with bad borowed decks and completely surrounded? Also, no mathematical effects, they get no reaction at all. Thank you for taking your time and actually reading this.
 
My advice, instead of searching for tricks that work well, practice to use "out of shape" cards so you can handle a borrowed deck. I personally pick up a few dollar store generic brands every once in a while for that reason.
 
Jul 17, 2010
75
0
Depends how "Bad" the deck is... If it's REALLY bad, I won't use the deck at all... If it's a "workable" deck and it sounds like it is if you're doing flourishes with it... Effects I've done Off the Cuff, Surrounded... are things like;
1. Two Card Monte - It can be done :D I've done it MANY times and haven't been caught on the "switch"
2. Think Touch Turn - I believe it's Ed Marlo's... Good Classic.
3. ACR

But you mean to tell me you haven't even Tried to do any effects at all when you're completely surrounded? I try not to do knuckle busting effects and focus on some good humorous performances... I'm a comedian at heart so it's easy for me to kill time with jokes... and added some cool magic effects, it makes for a great time!

Hope this helps?
 
Mar 27, 2011
44
0
I was using a Bee deck so I cant do DLs, they flash too much. But think touch turn looks great, i like that suggestion.
 
Jun 6, 2010
796
0
Nashville, TN
Instead of learning new tricks, learn how to control the audience. When you're surrounded 360 degrees, just walk over to where you can put your back up against a wall. Or just tell people that are behind to get in front of you so they can see better
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Moderator
Sep 14, 2008
3,655
465
43
Louisville, OH
Aaron is correct. I always tell people who are behind me to "come out front where they can see the magic better". If someone is over my shoulders or above me and there is nothing I can do then I go to self workers or mathematical card material.
 

Justin.Morris

Moderator
Aug 31, 2007
2,728
821
Canada
www.morrismagic.ca
When I was working in the restaurant, there was always someone peeking over from behind me, so I really only worked on angle friendly effects (acr, Biddle, predictions etc). Nearly all of my walk around card effects are impromptu and angle proof now.
 
Mar 22, 2010
32
0
projoke1 said:
So I have seen this happen a couple of times to me. But, yesterday I went to a party and brought my cards (obviously). I wanted to perform some effects but i couldnt because everytime I tried I was surrounded 360 degrees.

Let me start off my third-ing Aaron. Audience control is key here, and really, you're going to have to start learning it eventually if you want to further your magic. These principles will help you not only to positively impact your performance conditions, but will also aid in your misdirection, rapport building and even reduce the chance that people will start heckling you.

Especially if you're at a party, and you haven't yet shown any effects that evening, you should really have the advantage here. For example, rather then approaching a group of people with a deck in your hand and finding you're suddenly surrounded 360 degrees, try something different. Put the deck away in your pocket, approach a group of people, and start making small talk. Just socialize, and in the process, try to naturaly move around and position yourself in a good spot. From there, steer the conversation to magic, or better, find a natural bridge to whatever your patter is about. Only then, after you have established rapport with your spectators, are in a favorable position and hopefully having aroused some interest in your magic, take out your cards.

projoke1 said:
So I just decided to do a bunch of flourishes, since laymen dont know the difference.

NEVER, EVER, be disrespectful to your audience, not even in your own head. In particular, do not think of them as dumb people who are just there to fool. Most people you will perform for will likely be just as intelligent as you are yourself, especially since you seem to be rather young and performing in your own social circles and school.

Most people will be able to differentiate between a juggler and a magician. That is not to say that cardistry cannot be entertaining, provided it is performed and presented well, but it is NOT magic, and noone will view it as such.

This is particularly important if you wish to establish yourself as a magician. YOU may know that you'd rather do magic effects, but your audience will not. Exposing your audience repeatedly to flourishing will establish you as a flourisher, not a magician. Of course, if I misunderstood and this is actually your goal, then there is nothing wrong with that.

projoke1 said:
The day before that I was in school and did not have my deck. So I was given a borrowed deck, to my unfortunate luck it was a deck of red Bees. And i was also surrounded 360. So I just flourished and they liked it.

The easy solution here is to simply not perform under sub-optimal conditions. If you don't have your deck on you, don't perform. If you do not have the training required to pull off some effects with ANY borrowed deck, do not ask for one.

Again, remember that flourishing makes you a flourisher, in the eyes of the audience at least. If you cannot, under certain circumstances, give your audience everything you want to give them, simply wait until you can. Do not ever feel forced to perform, or show things that don't align with the image you want to create.

It can only ultimately work to the detriment of both the audience's entertainment and your percieved image.

projoke1 said:
So my question is: What effects are there that can be done with bad borowed decks and completely surrounded?

If you are really looking for effects that fit those conditions, there are a lot of good, self-working tricks out there that would fit your requirements. I suggest looking at books, since a lot of the DVD/video tutorials you find online are offering effects with heavy sleight of hand in them.

For example, Scarne on Card Tricks comes well-recommended. If you search the forums, I'm sure you'll find other things if you try hard enough.

projoke1 said:
Also, no mathematical effects, they get no reaction at all.

This is a blatant over-generalization that will get you nowhere. Noone is advocating to do the 21 card trick, but have you actually tried some of them for a live audience? If so, and be honest to yourself here, have you spend as much time working on your presentation as you would for other tricks?

Remember, the method itself is just that. It is only when focussed through your presentation and character that it becomes magical.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,434
6
Sydney, Australia
There has been some great advice given regarding audience control, and a good final point made by acme_myst above, so I wanted to ask a different question...

How does a DL flash more using Bees?
 
May 15, 2011
22
0
Instead of learning new tricks, learn how to control the audience. When you're surrounded 360 degrees, just walk over to where you can put your back up against a wall. Or just tell people that are behind to get in front of you so they can see better

That doesn't work where I'm from. There are cynical jackasses here. They just say stuff like, "well if you're so good, I shouldn't have to move!" and stuff. Or, my favorite, "Then your magic is fake!"
 
Aug 17, 2010
411
4
That doesn't work where I'm from. There are cynical jackasses here. They just say stuff like, "well if you're so good, I shouldn't have to move!"

"I'm not that good, so you really have to move"

"Then your magic is fake!"

"well, yeah - obviously. Also, Santa Clause may not be real, while we're at it."

Should that not work, a "come on, guys - over there a bit, would ya?"

Then turn to everyone else and say "sorry - can't do it with people behind me, and these guys won't budge. Maybe another time."

It gets easier to control crowds the more you do it.
 
Jun 6, 2010
796
0
Nashville, TN
That doesn't work where I'm from. There are cynical jackasses here. They just say stuff like, "well if you're so good, I shouldn't have to move!" and stuff. Or, my favorite, "Then your magic is fake!"

If people don't want to cooperate with you and they want to ruin everyone's good time, then simply... Don't perform. Nobody's forcing you to do magic and if there are people in the audience who are that hard to work with, then they're not worth it.
 
Like a lot of the other posts recommended, manage your audience. If you don't know how to manage an audience, go to a mall, or some other public place, and start performing. The more you perform, the more you'll be able to manage your audience.
 
Mar 22, 2010
32
0
Decarow said:
That doesn't work where I'm from. There are cynical jackasses here. They just say stuff like, "well if you're so good, I shouldn't have to move!" and stuff. Or, my favorite, "Then your magic is fake!"

Odd. Those principles are currently used and have been used all over the world for centuries, by scores of performers in many different fields, for even more unnumerable audiences. And yet, you happen to live in the one place on earth where there are cynical jackasses who are insusceptible to them. How unfortunate.

In all seriousness though, if you truly want to improve your performances, you'll need a change of attitude. There is nothing we can tell you to do that will change your spectator's actions and attitude, if you're not willing to change yours first.

I'm going to be a bit harsh here, but start off by realizing that you are an insignificant, unimportant and nameless part of the social machine that is the real world. Nobody, and I do mean nobody, is as interested in you or thinks you're as important as you think you are yourself. This holds true for everybody, and there is really nothing you can do to change that.
There is also nothing wrong with that; just realize that other people are mostly interested in themselves, and use this to your advantage.

So, rather than fighting, namecalling, and doing everything you can to convince people it's your spectator's fault and not your own, start with changing your attitude.

Put away your deck of cards. Make small talk with people. More specifically, make small talk about them. Ask questions, and refrain from speaking about whatever is on your mind, no matter how important it may be to you right now. The other person is likely to be much more interested in his or her own "very important" problems.

Then, after properly building rapport, try to get them interested in seeing some magic. You'll find their reactions to be much more forthcoming, as you've previously shown them (by displaying genuine interest) that you're not there to challenge their importance. Rather, you've accepted and acknowledged his or her importance by listening to them.

This is vitally important, since they'll just try to mentally resist everything you're doing if they think you're doing it in order to show your own importance above theirs. They don't want to cooperate then, because they feel that cooperation will aid you in degrading their importance in the eyes of the other people present. They won't want to move to a better spot, they won't hold the cards face down for as long as you want them to, and they sure as hell aren't going to accept it as real magic.

Use your personality to create magic, not the other way around.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 1, 2007
1,400
7
35
Belgrade, Serbia
Toby: actually "key card" is 2 words....ha ha. I get your point, just being funny.

Yep, I was trying to make a joke. If I laughed myself, then it wouldn't be as funny. I have a weird sense of humor.
But yeah, just a simple key card principle and a direct mind reading will KILL the audience and it can be done 360, even if someone is under you.
 
Mar 22, 2010
32
0
Toby said:
But yeah, just a simple key card principle and a direct mind reading will KILL the audience and it can be done 360, even if someone is under you.

Toby, if you don't mind my asking, why do you feel that this is the most appropriate solution to the difficulties that projoke1 and Decarow have laid out?

I'm not trying to criticize your suggestion here, or even downplay the potential power of the key card principle. Just trying to get a little discussion off the ground as to why exactly certain solutions might work, and where people think the underlying problems are coming from.
 
Jun 6, 2010
796
0
Nashville, TN
Toby, if you don't mind my asking, why do you feel that this is the most appropriate solution to the difficulties that projoke1 and Decarow have laid out?

I'm not trying to criticize your suggestion here, or even downplay the potential power of the key card principle. Just trying to get a little discussion off the ground as to why exactly certain solutions might work, and where people think the underlying problems are coming from.

He's just suggesting a trick that projoke might find helpful in these situations. That's what he asked for
 
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