Honestly I am sure people trade effects in the the inner circle's. I know I've heard that a few clubs did that back in the back before we had the internet.
Torrents vs Selling
- Thread starter Magic Man4293
- Start date
I don't know why they do it but I have some thoughts, obviously there is the whole make friends/ get respect thing which is probably why some of them do it but I guess it's possible that they may sometimes have more altruistic motives.
toyrobot listed several major problems with the magic industry, there's many people who agree with the points raised so it's likely that some of those people will decide to try help the situation, they feel magic is overpriced so they upload it for free, they feel the marketing is deceptive so they let people see it before they buy it. It's not a particularly effective long term solution but I guess it's a possibility as to why they might upload stuff.
So if torrenting occurs because of a lack of wealth, could not a case be made for leniency sometimes?
And is that the only reason why people use torrents?
Well it can start with lack of wealth, and end up with an addiction. I did not mean to imply that this was the only reason either. There could be tons of reasons why people do it.
The implication being that people who use torrents do not study. Ever.
Don't assume. Don't put words in my mouth.
Do you torrent the movies? If yes, then doesn't it strike you as disingenuous to criticize others for torrenting something else?
If no, then perhaps you are sitting on the answer, but you're too close to see it.
The urge to torrent movies/magic has always been there for me. I've never felt the urge to do so though. I never saw a need to. I think that it simply comes down to the fact that it is so easy to just download the next best magic DVD for free and the temptation there is just too hard to resist for most people.
This is basically what I've been trying to get out. I'm just not as good as getting my thoughts out on paper as other people. Money, temptation, and ethical boundries
Perhaps it's an objection to a system they don't want to support.
For all the bad mouthing of the pirate community, a lot of them are banding together because they don't like the idea of having their wallets raped every time they want to be entertained.
I haven't set foot in an FYE since they bought Sun Coast and Sam Goody. I'm not going to pay ****ing $25 for a Red Hot Chili Peppers album! Do I get a reach-around with that screw job?
I only go to see free movies now that my brother works in a theater because I know the studios assume I and everyone else are so bloody stupid that Meet the Spartans is the most intellectual thing we can handle. Why should I pay for the privilege of a Harvard business grad producer telling me what a moron I am that I'd actually like this garbage?
And in the magic industry... good god. The era of self-publishing means that any hack can put out a DVD or an ebook and charge 30 bucks a pop. I'm not shelling out cash to some wannabe with a messiah complex. Balls to that. And the recent popularity of magic is a double-edged sword as well. It's good for getting booked, but not so hot when you consider that now every schmuck with power fantasies is getting into the act, and because they have the deepest pockets the industry is going to cater to their dumb asses.
And you wonder why people turn to peer-to-peer applications?
We're living in an era where information and communication technology is expanding at a rate faster than quality control on the industry can keep up. The old business models are becoming obsolete, and they fight back by labeling their consumer base as criminals. And if they're going to be treated as criminals, they turn to piracy as an act of spite and defiance.
Well yeah, that is the problem as well. Too much crap out there and we rarely get to find the diamonds.
The funny thing about pirating is that the Game companies have been trying to stop it for years, yet once they put a DRM on their computers game, they are pretty much treating the people who actually WANT to pay for their stuff like criminals.
The funny thing about pirating is that the Game companies have been trying to stop it for years, yet once they put a DRM on their computers game, they are pretty much treating the people who actually WANT to pay for their stuff like criminals.
Now we're getting somewhere.
We have a situation where information technology is now so advanced that quality control is nigh impossible. This requires an expansion of the shareware principle and new commercial paradigms in order to survive long-term in this market.
My own company is built on this idea.
Well, some guy out there has to pay for the trick before he can upload it to multiple torrents and sending it to other people.
So by rebelling to a system he doesn't agree with, he's contributing by purchasing the product?
Unfortunatley I have very little knowledge in this area, would it be possible for any of these principles to be applied to the magic industry and if so, how would they be applied?
Someone out there always has to bite the bullet for the greater good.
To reference the earlier example of the video game industry, I see more game torrents than ever before. Tech savvy gamers buy the software, find a way to remove the DRM, then torrent the game with full instructions on how to do the same. They bite the bullet and shell out 50 bucks so that everyone else can have the game without having to throw money at a company that just treats them like thieves anyway.
There's enough of them out there. People who use torrents number in the millions. You really think it's that unlikely? Part of the problem is that you assume they're all just too damn cheap.
It's possible.
Part of it is experimentation. My book Exalt of the Weird is coming out later this month. Taking a leaf from Amazon dot com, I'm going to publish the table of contents on the site and offer anyone who sends me an email a PDF of one of the chapters. If they like what they see, they can request the full book. If not, big deal.
I might lose some money on this from people who aren't going to buy it when they otherwise might have as an impulse buy, but what I'm trying to do is earn the trust of my customers. That has better return in the long run for both them and me.
An example of an experiment in this concept that didn't work was the Zoon. People can exchange songs on it, but they only last for 30 days before the Zoon automatically deletes the file. Well, customers thought that was a slap in the nards, dangling a carrot in front of their face. The commercial climate right now has turned that old sales tactic into a mark of cyncism. Within a week of the Zoon's release, tech savvy owners had already figured out how to escape that 30 day limit and keep the shared music indefinitely.
I'm reminded of a fairly recent example in that Radiohead offered (for a limited time) their CD "In Rainbows" as a digital download on their website as a "pay-what-you-can" download. This meant that you could download the full album for whatever price you felt like paying (for whatever reason), including paying absolutely nothing. (Note for completeness: After a while, the offer was taken down, and the CD/Vinyl was sold like usual)
Obviously not a magic example, but it gets to the point of having to come up with a different business model.
Yup, I download torrents all the time. I check out a DVD or eBook, then if it has good stuff inside I go and buy the real deal from a artist/retailer/[insert other place you get stuff I can't remember right now]. I also download stuff and don't pay for it weather it's good or not. I cannot afford to spend even 15% of the money I'm saving by using torrents!
If I created a really good effect, I wouldn't mind if people downloaded my stuff for free.
I'd at least want a good amount of money for releasing it though.
And as long as I get credited instead of forgotten. ^_^
I'd at least want a good amount of money for releasing it though.
And as long as I get credited instead of forgotten. ^_^
well I see on ebay a lot people are selling the DVD for normal price/higher, and new. So they couldnt have watched it. Downloading tricks is way worse.
Let me tell you a story,
I am going to go and see the spirit, but that is later in the day. So I browse around and search for the spirit website and reviews. On my quest of finding info about the spirit I stumbled onto a bootlegged version of the movie. I watched it, and then made new plans for that night. I saved myself a cool 25 dollars.
The point of that story is yes I do unethical downloading, piracy, whatever you want to call it. It has saved me at least 200 dollars of magic effects and dvds. Now if I like the dvd enough I might buy it when I get a break in money, now going through college paying my own way my balance for magic is zero. The reason I opt to buying dvds that I like is because my computer can only hold so much information.
There are people that I buy from in a heartbeat because I trust them.
Now you have to understand that I only torrent the dvds I am genuinely interested in.
Myth one
People who download don't study and or appreciate what is on the dvd.
Mostly true but not really, some dvds I appreciate that they wasted my time with a load of junk, but saving myself 30 bucks. Other dvds I study backwards and forwards.
Myth two
People who download dvds aren't good performers.
Ahhhh now that you know I am in the internet rebellion of overpriced crap, tell me I am not a decent performer.
I do this because I am tired of sifting through magic Diarrhea looking for Gold. Also this Economy isn't helping much either.
I am going to go and see the spirit, but that is later in the day. So I browse around and search for the spirit website and reviews. On my quest of finding info about the spirit I stumbled onto a bootlegged version of the movie. I watched it, and then made new plans for that night. I saved myself a cool 25 dollars.
The point of that story is yes I do unethical downloading, piracy, whatever you want to call it. It has saved me at least 200 dollars of magic effects and dvds. Now if I like the dvd enough I might buy it when I get a break in money, now going through college paying my own way my balance for magic is zero. The reason I opt to buying dvds that I like is because my computer can only hold so much information.
There are people that I buy from in a heartbeat because I trust them.
Now you have to understand that I only torrent the dvds I am genuinely interested in.
Myth one
People who download don't study and or appreciate what is on the dvd.
Mostly true but not really, some dvds I appreciate that they wasted my time with a load of junk, but saving myself 30 bucks. Other dvds I study backwards and forwards.
Myth two
People who download dvds aren't good performers.
Ahhhh now that you know I am in the internet rebellion of overpriced crap, tell me I am not a decent performer.
I do this because I am tired of sifting through magic Diarrhea looking for Gold. Also this Economy isn't helping much either.
Just to play Devil's advocate here...
What about the magicians who need the money just as much as you do? I know of a magician who didn't even finish high school and doesn't have anything to fall back on. We all like to think of magic creators/performers living in a house like Chris Kenner or Criss Angel, when in fact it's not true. Buying a magic DVD is making a commitment you are getting knowledge and it is hard to give back. If you are afraid about purchasing crap don't impulse buy, and ask questions about the effect to someone who owns it. So do you think that torrenting magic or buying magic off of ebay is justified even if it is as bad as TnR?
-Michael
What about the magicians who need the money just as much as you do? I know of a magician who didn't even finish high school and doesn't have anything to fall back on. We all like to think of magic creators/performers living in a house like Chris Kenner or Criss Angel, when in fact it's not true. Buying a magic DVD is making a commitment you are getting knowledge and it is hard to give back. If you are afraid about purchasing crap don't impulse buy, and ask questions about the effect to someone who owns it. So do you think that torrenting magic or buying magic off of ebay is justified even if it is as bad as TnR?
-Michael