Trick answers

[Magnivore519]

Okay, so if any of you visit Penguin Magic, you may have heard about Luke J's Stapled trick. Back when that first came out, just a few months ago, I watched it at school with my friend Vince (he's my magic friend). After watching it we sat there talking about it, and after a couple short minutes of discussion, we figured out exactly how it was done. This has saved us lots of money from buying tricks.
Now, I'm not saying that we have a gift or anything, but can anyone else just watch a trick and know how it's done?

 

[Chr!s]

You realise this is very wrong right?

You can't just go around ripping people off, just save a bit of cash!

I'm sorry if this sounds a bit aggressive, but you need to stop this. Of course we can watch a performance demo and back engineer the method. Sometimes it jsut happens automatically, we can just see whats happening. But to go out of your way to back engineer with the sole purpose of 'figuring it out' to 'save money' is both ethically wrong and absolutely pathetic. You need to review what you want from this practice.

C!

 

[nicoloco]

Ya guy i can do the same thing and without someone i just see it and i know it everything magical that is when it comes to flourishes that's when i have promblem too much movement. but ya im sry for anyone who thinks this is cruel but i actually thought that it was a natural magicians talent..

i actually had some guy at the magic store i think the owner perform many tricks for me that i've never seen before but i'd just take my deck and do the same thing back at him.. he never shows me tricks no more figures...

Nico

 

[filth0013]

one time i figured out a trick that was created by joshua jay.

 

[Chr!s]

Wow, you're all such great magicians, you should all go to FISM, you know that.

and the guy who 'figured out' one of josh jay's effects, whew! are you the next Marlo or something??

I'm sorry guy's, but c'mon, you're dragging this thread into a pit of amateurish drivel. If you've got nothing constructive to say, shut the hell up!

C!

 

[Magnivore519]

Hey Chr!s, I'm not TRYING to figure it out. I figure it our NATURALLY. My friend Vince and I are both really creative people, and we ask each other "did you catch that?".
And second I didn't say that I was TRYING to save money. i said that I HAVE saved money by being able to do this.

 

[nicoloco]

Chris! you're the one whos killing the thread this guy just posted something and we try to answer him and you come along like, you guys suck you'll go no where doing this but no were just here trying to answer this guys thread so don't complain and just leave this thread along if you're going to be that way.

No one wants to hear from a guy like you with those comments...

Nico

 

[adjones]

I have to agree with Chris- this is highly unethical. If you perform this, you have no right to do so without buying it. By buying it, not only do you get the method, but also the rights to perform it.

I figured out Indecent before I bought it. Yes, I still bought it. And I'm glad I did, because there were many subtleties and tips Wayne taught that I never would have known about.

I've also figured out Control, Stigmata, and Sinful. But will I perform them, or even practice them without buying them? Absolutely not; it's very, very unethical, and I highly disagree with practices like that.

Oh, and don't forget that many magicians make their LIVING, and feed their family off selling their magic creations. Just something to think about while your greedy friend and yourself sit in front of your computer screen watching tricks, "figuring" them out, and performing them.

And why did I put quotation marks around "figuring"? Because method is only 15% of an effect... the rest is all performance done on your part. If you don't buy the effect, you won't get the performance hints and tips from the creator that you would otherwise.

You have a lot to learn, Young Padawon.

 

[Deechristopher]

Ya guy i can do the same thing and without someone i just see it and i know it everything magical that is when it comes to flourishes that's when i have promblem too much movement. but ya im sry for anyone who thinks this is cruel but i actually thought that it was a natural magicians talent..

i actually had some guy at the magic store i think the owner perform many tricks for me that i've never seen before but i'd just take my deck and do the same thing back at him.. he never shows me tricks no more figures...

Nico

I make a big chunk of my income from the effects I release and the MindLapse gear, so I have to strongly oppose this kind of outlook! There's a lot more to the magic than just the basic method.

I mean look at the believe DVD for instance, I'm sure Joel could have taught the basic method in a 3 minute youtube video, but the difference when you buy the work is that you get the work of the artist, the REAL work, the psychology, wording, presentation techniques, the stuff you don't see in demo's.

I'm sure pretty much everyone on here could reverse engineer most of the effects on the market, but not many people have put the work into the effects they perform that the creators did.

It's also a case of respect. I know the methods to alot of magic effects I buy, but you always get a lot more out of the book/dvd/whatever than if you just played with it yourself.

Little intricacies and subtleties make all the difference when it comes to performance.

D.

 

[Aris.SA]

I think that that trick is SO easy to figure out, I would have done the same thing, even though I dont like the effect at all..

 

[Abouldabab90]

yea me too man, i once figured out how to do control by wayne houchin, even though i was 100% sure that this is the technique, i bought the dvd and i tell you there are alot of suggestions on a trick so its not good just to know the secret..

 

[Sean_Raf]

I think a lot of people forget that a video is exploitable, you can watch a video over and over again until you eventually figure it out. I wouldn't call that talent or impressive, quite the opposite in fact.

If you can figure out effects, naturally (which granted I view as an entirely different thing) then I would still say the same. We all have a magician's eye for things like double lifts, top changes, palms (unless it's Benjamin Earl and his crazy natural "no way is he palming a card" palm). And we literally can't help but notice these things, they are instilled in us, just like we recognise letters that are joined together make up certain words, we recognise movements that are joined together make up different sleights. Human nature = Magician nature.

HOWEVER just because you have "figured" the effect out (And I say figured because you won't have, you'll have got the basic methodology sure, but nothing else) doesn't mean you should go out and perform it. It's called respect and courtesy, if you like the effect and you like the method so much so that you want to go out and perform it, BUY IT, have some common courtesy for the creator, they DO NOT have to offer these effects for our purchasing, they could keep them to themselves and just perform them for audiences - who by the way only get ONE chance to watch it.

If you figured out an effect but you like it so much that you want to perform it, do yourself a favour, have some integrity and buy it. Show your appreciation to the creator and say "Hey, thanks for offering this to us - you didn't have to so we're very grateful that you did". Not only will you be doing the ethical thing to do, but you'll feel better for it.

In saying all this of course, these threads are ultimately pointless and will eventually lead to arguments which will then degenerate (somehow) to something about Ellusionist (because we're Theory11 and by our very nature hate E for reasons which we have but don't care to explain them ) - Sorry, went off an a rant/tangent... A rantgent.

All I'm saying is that we're gonna have people that think it's okay because a trick is a trick, it's not like piracy or something. And (in fairness, the majority) people who think you should have some courtesy and respect for the creators who offer their effects which they've worked long and hard (no jokes please) on.

Okay, I'm done now.

- Sean

 

[Pavan R]

Adjones summed it up pretty good. Just because you figured out the effect, doesn't mean you can go around doing it. By not having the DVD, you do not know much about the presenation of the effect, which is in most cases more important than the method.

 

[Magic Man4293]

I have figured out tons of tricks stigmata,believe,tnr,indecent. But it is best to et the dvds because you get a feel for the effect.


-Michael

 

[JamesAV305]

I dont see anything unethical about it. If something is that easy to figure out then why is there any need to go out and spend money on it. Im sorry but im a college student so i have VERY little money to spend on magic... so if i can figure out a trick i dont see any reason why i should go out of my way to pay for something i already know how to do.

 

[dukehousemagic]

If you are willing to rip another magician's work and perform his illusion without purchasing it, then you do not belong in this field of entertaining.

Please delete your forum account and throw away your decks.

 

[Toby]

I dont see anything unethical about it. If something is that easy to figure out then why is there any need to go out and spend money on it.

Read the posts above you. Because of etics and presentation/performance of the trick.

And dont give me that "i'm a student" stuff. Do you know who Jozo Bozo is?
He is famous kids magician. He gives lectures on Kidabra, he performed in the White House (yup, where American president lives), and he has around 600 shows a year. I met him yesterday in person. He started doing magic proffesionally in 1992, the year that his country (Croatia) and my country (Serbia) split up in a terrible war. In that year of crysis he had only TWO (yup 2 / TWO) tricks, and they were the most cheapest and silliest tricks in the world (i think that even Killer Spies are much better trick from those he had). And he still succseded to have 100 kids shows that year (in war enviroment, with TWO tricks), and each show lasted for 30-40 minutes.

So yeah, its not the method, its presentation...

 

[copperfield 14]

Well I can't figure out anything. Even if I do there is usually something wrong I'm doing so I just buy the dvd.

Oh and Chris learn to express yourself better. Learn from adjones and sean raf.

 

[Chr!s]

I tried to speak in a concise manner, that is perhaps why i seemd blunt, but i stand by my words. This is an issue i feel very passionately about. I myself am a creator and developer of magic, not as 'flash in the pan' projects, but as a serious pursuit. When i make the big step into distribution and publication, i want to feel safe in the knowledge that i will not be a victim of theft. My effects, my sleights, are of a very personal significance to me, and i would be hesitant to put them out there for all and sundry to benefit from, if behaviour of the type outlined above is not dealt with appropriately.
As an aside, i am a very sarcastic person, and this tends to come out in full swing when i am annoyed or angered. For this, i do apologise. For everything else, i stand by.

C!

 

[JamesAV305]

as far as the kids magician that had two tricks thats wonderful for him im happy he made it. But i dont do much performing and i dont work during the school year so im sorry if you think that college students have money to spend when ever they want but the truth is that they dont. If i wasnt away at school and i was working full time of performing full time that would be one thing. But the point i dont so if a trick is worth buying by all means i will pay the money for it when i have it. But if i see a performance of someone doing a trick im not going to go out of my way and pay thirty dollars for someone to tell me when i need to do a double lift.

Im not saying download pirated dvds or save them and put them in slow motion to figure them out but if it is easy enough that you right away know how its done... well then im not going to wait a month to save up before i use it sorry.

Im just performing for friends family and people i meet for free. If I'm going to use something in an actual routine i would most likely purchase it sot that i can perform it the best i can.

So if your worried about people steeling your tricks then heres an idea: create something original and people wont figure it out.