What are a few basic principles in mentalism?

[Philipp S.(4)]

Hey There,

apart from performance skill, the presentation and the swami gimmick. Are ther some principles I can apply to eg. card magic like the "Magicians Choice"? What comes to my mind is also the center tear cuz it is so versatile so do you have any other ideas?
Cheers
Philipp

 

[Steerpike]

Kid you need to get your fundamentals in order before you start worrying about mentalism. Take a year to finish rounding out the basics, then come back and ask for a start in mentalism. Right now all you have is card tricks you nicked from YouTube and some flavor-of-the-month DVDs. Give yourself a nail writer and a center tear and that won't make you a mentalist, just a magician doing card tricks with a nail writer and a center tear.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Is it really so hard to answer a simple question. God, I only was courious. I know that I can't start mentalism right now. The only thing I keep hearing is: No, its too early, youre doing something wrong. I just courious and if you aren't able to answer my question then let it. That can't be so hard, can't it?
I surely take your advice serious but if you tell everyone that's quite new to magic what he has to do, what he does wrong and don't answer him simple question then its really doesn't surprise that I am getting annoyed.
I will go my way and even if I started to be a mentalist AND a card magician at the same time and I continue doing it for some years, that won't make me a worse magician.

 

[krab]

Hey There,

apart from performance skill, the presentation and the swami gimmick. Are ther some principles I can apply to eg. card magic like the "Magicians Choice"? What comes to my mind is also the center tear cuz it is so versatile so do you have any other ideas?
Cheers
Philipp

It is gonna cost some money because it's out of print but pick up the Amateur Magician's Handbook by Hay. but steer is right Stop trying to race F1 when you have barely learned how to ride a bike

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

Alrighty then, I listen to your advice. I will get a pickpocket now
I will get three basic books to my birthday so I will have plenty of material.
Cheers
Phil

 

[Steerpike]

Is it really so hard to answer a simple question. God, I only was courious. I know that I can't start mentalism right now. The only thing I keep hearing is: No, its too early, youre doing something wrong. I just courious and if you aren't able to answer my question then let it. That can't be so hard, can't it?

Yes. Sometimes the answer you want to hear and the answer you need to hear are not the same thing. I learned that the first time Rick Maue told me my ego had surpassed my talent.

I surely take your advice serious but if you tell everyone that's quite new to magic what he has to do, what he does wrong and don't answer him simple question then its really doesn't surprise that I am getting annoyed.

Question: If you can't handle this kind of feedback from me, how do you expect to handle an audience?

I will go my way and even if I started to be a mentalist AND a card magician at the same time and I continue doing it for some years, that won't make me a worse magician.

So take my feedback seriously... but you're announcing your intention to just do whatever you feel like regardless of what I advise?

Look kid, you're free to blow me off completely. You're under no obligation whatsoever to take a single word I say to heart. In fact, you are free to tell me that you respect my opinion, then turn around and completely blow me off, going ahead with your original plan no matter how misguided.

But by the same token, I am also free to decide that my time is being wasted and stop talking to you altogether. The door is not closed yet, but with that post, it's starting to.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

OK, First of all I apologize for being cocky. I guess, as you said, my ego might have surpassed my talent/abilities.
I will tell you my story, then you will understand:
So, I started learning magic from YouTube:
I learned RetroRepro, Double Lifts, Colour Changes, Classic Triumph, and some pen magic (flip stick).
I early realized that YouTube isn't that a great place to learn simply because there aren't that much good tricks out there on YouTube imo.
After 2 months I did Jazz Aces, Retro Repro, a Sandwich Routine and 1 Coin Routine and some rubber band stuff (CMHC). So I really like close-up magic but NOT ONLY card magic, thats way too boring. But we will come to that later. I discovered T11 and I was so wowed that I spend nearly 150$ on this page and in total 700$ in magic. It might have been not the best idea to buy all that stuff but now I know methods I won't use (heavily setup or just a Five Gum Pack where it takes 5 minutes to make one gimmick for one presentation.) I bought the metal trilogy but soon I realized that I am not already ready for that. Then I went to the magic circle and performed for the boss: he told me that what you are telling me. So then I started to really work and invent great presentation and plots people can relate to. I worked so long on an effect until I could present it.
After that I went to another magic circle where they told me that the boss of the other magic circle was a perfectionist and they asked themselves that he thinks to scare off young people. (After 1 month off practice I was able to do the backpalm quite properly.) The other magicians told me that they are surprised how far I am with my presentation style (plots,...) and the level and variety off my tricks. Of course they weren't all perfect but it was quite a good experience.
So now to the important part:
I make myself paragraphs:
I look into ring magic for a month and when I think I've seen enough (I just google: "important ring magic dvds" (only ring) and then there are 3 DVDs and 2 routines (Divorce and Reflex) I could found after long research.) I found then I move on to the next paragraph rubber band magic and then pen magic. (btw I really enjoyed ring magic). So I take out my favourite, always impromptu effects and I keeped practising. They weren't perfect but good enough to present them to sprectators. I wanted to eg. something about mentalism becuz I do a simple evivoque and a prediction effect, a book test and an ESP test. I present it in a proper way and everybody goes nuts. So my point is here: I search the best/most fitting effects for my style, doesn't matter if it use keys, cards, pens, rings or something else as long as I think the magic is entertaining. So far I have maybe 20 trick in my "working repertoire" (effects I consider as funy and so good that I present them to spectators. I maybe know 200 tricks but I simply don't like them.)
My last paragraph was the 3CM plot and I really put a lot of work into it (6 months is half of my magic "career" and for me a heck of a lot of time) and I really thought I invented something great to share with you. Now it isn't like that but I still learned much about the plot and I created my own routine (every phase of the 10 phases were "original" or I just invented them new) and I can profite from it. I never really saw a need to really go deep into card magic but that will be the thing I will do from now on.
But only because I am studying card magic, that won't keep me from learning other stuff too
Cheers
Phil

 

[Steerpike]

Okay. So I just have one question. Where are you planning to take this? What's your long-term goal(s)?

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

I actually wanna take this to a point where it is a hobby from which I can earn some money.
BTW, I've already been in an event marketing and I will have my trial presentation in a restaurant soon.

 

[Temitopesmith]

regardless of the predictions that everyone will react similarly, there are indifferent people who do come with a real zeal in them to know and learn about.

 

[Craig Browning]

It is gonna cost some money because it's out of print but pick up the Amateur Magician's Handbook by Hay. but steer is right Stop trying to race F1 when you have barely learned how to ride a bike

Amateur Magician's Handbook. . . it's a lot more expensive than when I first bought it, but here you go. . .

 

[Craig Browning]

I actually wanna take this to a point where it is a hobby from which I can earn some money.
BTW, I've already been in an event marketing and I will have my trial presentation in a restaurant soon.

Ok . . . first things first. . . if you've been "into magic" for less than two years STAY AWAY FROM MENTALISM. . . if you have less than two years experience performing regularly STAY AWAY FROM MENTALISM. . . and then there's my favorite. . . if you are less than 22 years of age STAY AWAY FROM MENTALISM.

Yes, a 16 year old can bend spoons, etc. or apparently read minds BUT, they don't have the kind of foundation that's required for being believable, which is what is required by Mentalism -- IT IS NOT THE SAME THING AS MAGIC! With magic the audience knows you are doing tricks; with Mentalism you can begin religions (many have).

Pour your money into the Mark Wilson and Tarbell Courses in Magic and spend the next 18-24 months STUDYING them and them alone. Get that book I gave you links to above along with "Magic & Showmanship". . . I'll forgive anyone from studying those along side the other two but stay away from everything else for at least a year and when you do that you want to move to Bobo's Modern Coin Magic and Royal Road to Card Magic. . . notice that we're approaching 2+ years an NO MENTALISM. . . in fact, you are only covering THE BASICS and in truth, you're barely touching on them. . . it takes about 5 years of active study & practice to become a novice level performer and even get considered by most elder magicians for actual Mentorship. . . I don't mean magic lessons I mean being taken under arm and taught directly what to do, how to do it and how to improve upon what you think you already know.

ALL OF THIS leans on BOOKS not videos and certainly not YOUTUBE (for which the chief requisite seems to be, being an idiot that loves to waste money and steal people's material).

In order to understand the "principles" of Mentalism you have to first understand Magic in that there are certain overlaps as well as contradictions. I'd point you to Bob Cassidy's Principia but chances are you'd not understand the point in that you simply haven't the experience or basic knowledge as of yet.

You want to "learn Mentalism" because you see everyone else tinkering with it and treating it like they would the sponge balls or card tricks. . . antics that have hurt mentalism significantly and caused it to move back underground and become far less obtainable than it was for much of the past decade; it has become a heck of a lot more expensive as well as exclusive, part of that being due to theft but most of it has to do with how the craft is being lost and turned into being just another kind of stage magic. . . while related, they ARE NOT the same thing.

If you want to become a solid performer then learn the basics first! After a good year of study you will start finding niche areas that you are drawn to such as coin work, sponge, general manipulation, etc. Sadly, you've already been poisoned by the Card Trick Addiction. . . that is a personal pet peeve in that too many magic lovers discover card tricks and go blind, forgetting that there is a heck of a lot more to this craft than bloody paste boards. Have a wider sense of horizon and you'll go much further!

Best of luck!

 

[krab]

BTW, I've already been in an event marketing and I will have my trial presentation in a restaurant soon.

You have been in magic for a year with only card work and you are 16. No where near ready for restaurant work.

 

[Philipp S.(4)]

@krab Well, learning by doing. I can't be that bad if a event managment organizes me a trial presentation in a somewhat big restaurant. I will do it, I will see and post my experiences in the forum. Contrary to you there are quite many magicians who gratulated me to that step and the first part of success and honored me that I had the courage. I really appreciate it more but maybe it's only the magicians in germany...
@Craig That was by far the most constructive post so far here. Thanks for that.
Okay, do you mean by wider horizon learn the basics in more directions than one or do you mean just more books on 1 topic?

 

[krab]

@krab Well, learning by doing. I can't be that bad if a event managment organizes me a trial presentation in a somewhat big restaurant. I will do it, I will see and post my experiences in the forum. Contrary to you there are quite many magicians who gratulated me to that step and the first part of success and honored me that I had the courage. I really appreciate it more but maybe it's only the magicians in germany...

It's story time. I worked on learning slights and effects for years before I did anything outside of a Ring meeting. The summer I turned 18, 1997, my mentor would book us as a pair for street fairs walk around. Eight to ten hours a six to seven days a week for three month. Not solo though. I always had him there to see how I handled the crows. That fall he took me to the restaurants when he worked. For the first two weeks all I did was sit at the bar and watch him work. See the ins and outs. How long to stay at tables. How to work with the kitchen and wait staff to cover any screw ups by working a table slightly longer. How not to be in the way.

After two weeks of that he would have me cover the waiting to be seated area. To get the feel of working in a tight space. Two weeks after that I would work two 30 minute table hopping shifts in the four hours he was there. But always he was there. To correct mistakes I would make. That went on til December and office party season kicked in. My job was to table hop while food was served before he took the stage. A solo gig but still my mentor was there just in case. In the spring of the 1999 (I'm 20 at this point) when festival season hit he would farm me out for solo walk around gigs for small parties and smaller fairs when he was doubled booked. This time completely solo. As we moved into late summer he started giving me some of the lesser paying restaurant gig to cut my teeth on.

In early 2001 I moved to a new state and got a job as the resident magician for a cluster of radio stations. I did magic for their live broadcast their listener parties. I would entertain the the country music stars and NASCAR drivers we would bring to town. I did all of this for them at $100 an hour. I tell you this because this is where I'm going to get mean and tell a story i'm sure other pros know all too well...

When I talked to the managers of the restaurants where we held events, they loved my work and wanted to book me. I gave them my price of $125 an hour for a four hour minimum (I gave the station a break on price for the steady work). They said as much as they like me they would rather pay the other two guys in town the $15 an hour. These two guys had been in magic for less than two years did mostly cards and was costing me money. They worked cheap, put on a poor shows, and would run down any other magician in town. It left a bad taste in the mouth of the bookers in town. Why hire a magician for $125 when I can get this guy for $15. Why hire a magician the last one did a poor show.

It took my three years of work to get to where I was at a level my mentor though I could work in public and put in a great show. It took three years of training under him to learn the ins and outs of making a full time living as a magician. It two kids who thought they were the second coming of David Blaine to screw me and the other magicians in the area. At 16 you would be one of those guys. You wouldn't be able to get the price the full time works command. Then people want to know why they are paying$300 an hour for someone when they can get you for $50. Or if you ask the same $300 and do your card act then it puts them off of magicians.

Companies want the most professional looking and acting people as the face of their company, and well a 16 year old is not it. So listen to those of us who put in the work. Who put in the time. Act like we might know what the heck we are talking about. You are not ready at 16 and only doing this for a year. You are not ready as a card worker. And it's not because i'm trying to run you down. I'm telling you this because I was there. I was 16 and thought I knew it all. I was lucky though. I had a mentor from the time I started magic at 14. Someone who made sure I was well rounded as a magician. Someone who kept me from buying Ricardo's Floating Silver Cube.

If you think I'm saying this because I'm an American, well I can put you in touch with a German who would be just as harsh or harsher. I'm saying this because I love magic. I love it when young people take a real interest in the art. I hate when they try to fly when they can't even walk. Magic is a life long adventure. and you have a long long time to get there.

 

[Craig Browning]

@krab Well, learning by doing. I can't be that bad if a event managment organizes me a trial presentation in a somewhat big restaurant. I will do it, I will see and post my experiences in the forum. Contrary to you there are quite many magicians who gratulated me to that step and the first part of success and honored me that I had the courage. I really appreciate it more but maybe it's only the magicians in germany...

Based simply on what you've shared I'd say that Krab has a point; you don't have a wide enough arsenal as of yet if all you've studied is card tricks. . . which will get boring FAST if you don't have any kind of variety to offer such as sponge balls, coins/money effects, etc.

My suggestion is that you create 3 10 minute close-up "sets" that offer a little bit of everything. This will keep you from getting bored (and you will. . . it gets to be a challenge to do the same routine over and over and over) You can rotate these routines from table to table. Make certain that what you choose flows and is easily reset and ready to go. Don't go relying on tons of gimmicks or packet type effects. Be careful when it comes to routines that take up table space (cups & balls or a chop cup can push boundaries sometimes, due to table size) so you want to be as "self-contained" and do material that can work in hand or with the aid of one or two spectators.

Be visual! This creates curiosity in the room and people will request having you join them for a quick show, this makes you look good to management and generates private engagement inquiries as well.

There's a lot more to it than this, but variety is important as is good planning.

@Craig That was by far the most constructive post so far here. Thanks for that.
Okay, do you mean by wider horizon learn the basics in more directions than one or do you mean just more books on 1 topic?

Well, that's what we old guys are here for. . . .

Yes, "wider horizons" means to diversify in what you are studying and practicing.

I specialize in Mentalism and yet, I will pull out my Cups & Balls and other bits just to break up the constant work with the other. I still consult with people when it comes to big illusions (my specialty for over twenty years) but then, I still have a love affair with the things. . . it just hurts my back thinking about having to move them now days. . . But even within Mentalism I find that I must learn far more than what I might actually use the most or else I stagnate as a creative artist, which is what I'm trying to help you recognize; when we wear blinders and only see one small niche in this craft (anything in life) we limit ourselves and our potential, so LEARN ALL YOU CAN.

BTW. . . that was advice given to me when I was 12 years old by a very special person that was in and out of my life for a very long time. You may have heard of him, Harry Blackstone?

Harry was very big on education in all forms and he was a most amazing human being, not just a great showman. But he wasn't the only "old timer" that encouraged me to study and learn all I could about my art and about life, history/trivia, etc.

You can ask me anything and I'll give you the best, most honest answer I can or point you to sources that could help you out that's my job these days.