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Why Do Magicians Dislike Criss Angel?
- Thread starter AshleyHall
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I think it relies on two things really, Jealousy that someone is on the TV when your not and you feel you are a better performer or been doing it longer and so should have more recognition, and the fact that the tricks that they do most of the time require no skill and can be bought off the shelves. Also people on TV have the opportunity to hire actors so they can do tricks with 'borrowed' objects and also because they are actors get much larger reactions.
I've found that a lot of people nowadays ask me "do you know Dynamo?" or "do that trick that Dynamo does!" and my answer is "I'm better, I'm Dynamite!" just as a laugh. It gets my audience more interested in my act and for that I thank them for being on the TV. However, a lot of the tricks Dynamo does on the TV show use gimmicks and I prefer to just turn up to gig with a pack of cards and spoons.
I have never encountered a problem, but if a spectator expects me to put a mobile phone in a glass bottle, I simply say 'no but i can do this!' and perform pressure, or substitute the trick they ask for that uses gimmicks with a trick i know similar that doesn't.
Despite their lack of skill on the TV and constant use of gaffs, gimmicks, actors etc they have popularised magic again. All we need now is a modern day Paul Daniels to popularise Stage/Cabaret Magic again and everyone can be happy!
Simon_Magic
I've found that a lot of people nowadays ask me "do you know Dynamo?" or "do that trick that Dynamo does!" and my answer is "I'm better, I'm Dynamite!" just as a laugh. It gets my audience more interested in my act and for that I thank them for being on the TV. However, a lot of the tricks Dynamo does on the TV show use gimmicks and I prefer to just turn up to gig with a pack of cards and spoons.
I have never encountered a problem, but if a spectator expects me to put a mobile phone in a glass bottle, I simply say 'no but i can do this!' and perform pressure, or substitute the trick they ask for that uses gimmicks with a trick i know similar that doesn't.
Despite their lack of skill on the TV and constant use of gaffs, gimmicks, actors etc they have popularised magic again. All we need now is a modern day Paul Daniels to popularise Stage/Cabaret Magic again and everyone can be happy!
Simon_Magic
I guess you count things like wires, camera tricks and video editing. "Things that can be bought off the shelves."... >_>
I agree with Simon. I think that magicians such as Criss Angel really sell magic as real and I respect that. Although stooges and editing is something completely different. I guess that some magicians are jealous that Criss is famous and they aren't. I also think that some magicians are strongly against stooges and camera editing. To wrap this up, I'm a little jealous of Criss because when I perform magic, a majority of people say I'm gonna be the next Criss Angel someday, when he uses principles I don't believe in. But heck, if they say I'll be flying across buildings and walking on water even if it is staged, that's fine with me.
I don't know Chis Angel and I've never met him. He may be a very nice guy but I dislike how he represents our art in public. He may be a very nice guy.
I don't like Criss Angel's style, I dislike the "rockstar" persona when he performs. When he performs he seems very into himself and self gratifying.
I prefer magic to be a little more artistic.
I dislike the claims that he makes. For instance, when he apeared on AGT he claimed to break the record for a straight jacket escape, he didn't come anywhere close.
I don't like how he has treated some of his fellow magicians such as the well respected Andre Kole regarding his walking on water illusion.
I don't like how he flat out lies on a very consistent basis. He says that he doesn't use a stooge, then he uses a stooge, he says that he doesn't use camera tricks, then he uses camera tricks, he says he doesn't edit the video, then he edits the video. This continual blurring of the rules set by other tv magicians in the past seems like a dangerous pathway to be on.
I don't like how he portrayed Johnny Thompson on his show. I don't feel like he really appreciates the privilege it is to have such a great creative team. When he has guest magicians on the show I don't feel like he appreciates them.
I don't like how on his website he handcuffed Michael Ammar to a table. Even if Ammar agreed to it, that is no way to treat a fellow performer.
I don't want laymen to look at Criss Angel and think "So, that's what a magician is!". There are so many other magician's out there that deserve much more credit than he.
I don't like Criss Angel's style, I dislike the "rockstar" persona when he performs. When he performs he seems very into himself and self gratifying.
I prefer magic to be a little more artistic.
I dislike the claims that he makes. For instance, when he apeared on AGT he claimed to break the record for a straight jacket escape, he didn't come anywhere close.
I don't like how he has treated some of his fellow magicians such as the well respected Andre Kole regarding his walking on water illusion.
I don't like how he flat out lies on a very consistent basis. He says that he doesn't use a stooge, then he uses a stooge, he says that he doesn't use camera tricks, then he uses camera tricks, he says he doesn't edit the video, then he edits the video. This continual blurring of the rules set by other tv magicians in the past seems like a dangerous pathway to be on.
I don't like how he portrayed Johnny Thompson on his show. I don't feel like he really appreciates the privilege it is to have such a great creative team. When he has guest magicians on the show I don't feel like he appreciates them.
I don't like how on his website he handcuffed Michael Ammar to a table. Even if Ammar agreed to it, that is no way to treat a fellow performer.
I don't want laymen to look at Criss Angel and think "So, that's what a magician is!". There are so many other magician's out there that deserve much more credit than he.
You can come up with all the pros, cons, facts, and counter-facts you like but I think it boils down to acting like a prima donna. Every TV magician has likely used some of the same camera tricks that Chris does. Arguments can be made pro and con most of the character choices of most of the other major magic celebrities as well. What it comes down to is burning bridges within the community you come from. People in the Music industry have good reason's not to like Axel Rose. I don't know exactly what they are but I know they exist. Chris is kind of Magic's "Axel Rose."
The first reason people detest Criss. . . he's got an ego bigger than Texas and has pissed on nearly every major name that originally reached out to help him. He's a jerk! (and that's a kind way of stating it).
Ignoring the stooges, camera effects, etc. those that are "in the know" have another huge reason to not respect Criss -- he puts himself into a corner and blames everyone else when things don't go right. He's lost his humility!
I need to preface things here. . . Criss IS NOT a young punker, he's a 40+ year old Goth wannabe. I first saw him work at the Magic castle close to 20 years ago if not before that when his big illusion was a nice quick exchange sub-trunk. In those days he was a humble kid that valued perspective from others. He was "hungry" and not too certain how his career was going to go and yet, he had some very solid, beautiful magic because it had been performed hundreds of times and the bugs were out of it. Not so with his newer stuff, much of which hasn't been built in the most deceptive manner possible because he's ticked off so many noted builders with his demands and refusing to LISTEN.
His "success" went straight to his head. While this is normal and if one is lucky they'll have advisors and managers to help them come back down to earth (or some moral fiber of their own, such as Luke Jermay has shown) but Criss ignored such counsel and essentially banished everyone from court.
Even the media has lost interest in him, returning to David Blaine who has remained a somewhat down to earth businessman that presents a rather primitive style of magic blended with skill. . . he's fulfilling his the definition of himself that he started with by being an urban shaman or fakir if you would.
Yes, Criss did some limited good when he first hit the scene, but it was Blaine that knee capped Copperfield and brought a sudden end to the grand illusion trends of the previous three or four decades.
Criss and his style of presentation has ultimately hurt magic when it comes to the "gentleman's craft" it was known to be for so long. . . that clean cut Blackstone type of art form. I say that it "hurt" because he threw rules out the window and indirectly gave permission to all new students of magic to more or less do the same. . . such as the moshing of Magic with Mentalism as we see it now vs. how the two arts have been kept segregated for generations. Criss likewise gave us the Jack of All Trades mind set which again, hurts the quality of what we bring with us when we do work and though few realize it now, it is the sort of thing that will keep you on the lower tier of the pay scale for the next 30 years if you keep it up. . . you simply won't have a product buyers can see and understand and no one wants to pay good money for something they're not sure will be solid and appropriate.
I could go further down the list but these are the things I know from people who've worked for and with the schmuck. As the saying goes, people must earn "respect" and Criss has gone a long way to repel it.
Ignoring the stooges, camera effects, etc. those that are "in the know" have another huge reason to not respect Criss -- he puts himself into a corner and blames everyone else when things don't go right. He's lost his humility!
I need to preface things here. . . Criss IS NOT a young punker, he's a 40+ year old Goth wannabe. I first saw him work at the Magic castle close to 20 years ago if not before that when his big illusion was a nice quick exchange sub-trunk. In those days he was a humble kid that valued perspective from others. He was "hungry" and not too certain how his career was going to go and yet, he had some very solid, beautiful magic because it had been performed hundreds of times and the bugs were out of it. Not so with his newer stuff, much of which hasn't been built in the most deceptive manner possible because he's ticked off so many noted builders with his demands and refusing to LISTEN.
His "success" went straight to his head. While this is normal and if one is lucky they'll have advisors and managers to help them come back down to earth (or some moral fiber of their own, such as Luke Jermay has shown) but Criss ignored such counsel and essentially banished everyone from court.
Even the media has lost interest in him, returning to David Blaine who has remained a somewhat down to earth businessman that presents a rather primitive style of magic blended with skill. . . he's fulfilling his the definition of himself that he started with by being an urban shaman or fakir if you would.
Yes, Criss did some limited good when he first hit the scene, but it was Blaine that knee capped Copperfield and brought a sudden end to the grand illusion trends of the previous three or four decades.
Criss and his style of presentation has ultimately hurt magic when it comes to the "gentleman's craft" it was known to be for so long. . . that clean cut Blackstone type of art form. I say that it "hurt" because he threw rules out the window and indirectly gave permission to all new students of magic to more or less do the same. . . such as the moshing of Magic with Mentalism as we see it now vs. how the two arts have been kept segregated for generations. Criss likewise gave us the Jack of All Trades mind set which again, hurts the quality of what we bring with us when we do work and though few realize it now, it is the sort of thing that will keep you on the lower tier of the pay scale for the next 30 years if you keep it up. . . you simply won't have a product buyers can see and understand and no one wants to pay good money for something they're not sure will be solid and appropriate.
I could go further down the list but these are the things I know from people who've worked for and with the schmuck. As the saying goes, people must earn "respect" and Criss has gone a long way to repel it.
zdogmagic I laughed out loud when I saw your signature
hahah thanks Goatears. I was laughing so hard when i first saw it too!!
Anyway, we all hate Criss Angel; end of story.
-z
As most of you know, threads like these end up starting a huge argument and include nothing but bashing. Please refrain from blatantly doing so, and this thread will not be closed. Act professional when replying to threads like these. Just a heads up!
That is a very well reasoned thought, and certainly reflects the professionalism one would expect from the T11 staff. I don't mean to be too critical of your post Casey, however, I think that gentle reminder to stay civil may have been more topical a year or two ago. Quite frankly, any more it seems as if the vast majority of magicians are in agreement on this issue. So in truth, if there is a reason to close this thread, it may be simply because we all wind up using different verbs, adjectives, and sentence structures to describe the same basic feelings and arguments. In short...we are all saying the same thing. We are just saying it differently.
But remember, this thread isn't for people to unleash their extreme distaste for Criss Anel; rather it is to explain why they have a distaste for him. That being said, I think this thread has more or less accomplished that already.
I don't want to be a troll. I'm not trying to antagonize, but I see a pattern here.
Personally I don't know what new "evidence" is going to surface now in this thread that hasn't already been expressed in any of the other several threads that have been created on this subject over the past few years.
You're always going to get a hand full of people stating their personal reasons why they like or dislike him. Then you're going to find the few die hard fan boys who will adamantly defend him from your "attacks". You'll find working pros like Craig and others who will give the inside opinion to how he's behaved to the people responsible for his fame, and finally you'll get someone moving the conversation away from his magic only to focus on why he's successful; creating a several paragraph dissertation on his marketing and branding skills.
Eventually one of the points of view will take a snide pop shot at another, which will open up several pages of counter trolling before a mod steps in and shuts the entire thing down. Wait three months, and the process begins all over again when someone else decides we've not had enough "intelligent conversation" on the subject.
Moral of the story: Search Feature. It's there for a reason.
Personally I don't know what new "evidence" is going to surface now in this thread that hasn't already been expressed in any of the other several threads that have been created on this subject over the past few years.
You're always going to get a hand full of people stating their personal reasons why they like or dislike him. Then you're going to find the few die hard fan boys who will adamantly defend him from your "attacks". You'll find working pros like Craig and others who will give the inside opinion to how he's behaved to the people responsible for his fame, and finally you'll get someone moving the conversation away from his magic only to focus on why he's successful; creating a several paragraph dissertation on his marketing and branding skills.
Eventually one of the points of view will take a snide pop shot at another, which will open up several pages of counter trolling before a mod steps in and shuts the entire thing down. Wait three months, and the process begins all over again when someone else decides we've not had enough "intelligent conversation" on the subject.
Moral of the story: Search Feature. It's there for a reason.
Have you learnt nothing in your time on the interweb William? People don't use search functions, because they're lazy. Much easier to create a topic, sit back and wait for someone to answer.
Anyway, I don't hate him. I like a lot of the magic he does, but I don't like the fact that he wears make-up, nail varnish etc...
Anyway, I don't hate him. I like a lot of the magic he does, but I don't like the fact that he wears make-up, nail varnish etc...
Actually, there is another reason why the Search function isn't used a lot (seemingly); many of them can't seem to understand the terms typed in for the search. I can't tell you how many forum search features don't recognize certain people's names let alone actual topics. I encounter this frequently because I wish to go back and find a book reference or a quote, etc. and even when I'm item specific in what I'm searching for, the system simply doesn't recognize it. The end result. . . at least in certain cases, is the creation of a new thread on an old issue.
Yes, lethargy does tend to be the greater reason as to why we see such things alongside the awkwardness of the newbie seeking to break the ice somehow, and be part of the group, so they post on their favorite topic or issue. . . then again, such things go back to the lack of Search function use; thinking and taking intelligent actions before doing something that seems "easier" and "more direct" that can blow up in your face.
The predictable course of thread developement of a predictable Chris Angel Thread should also include the predictable post of someone pointing out how predictable these are. These posts are then predictably countered with the predictable, "Use the search function" post which is then generally followed by very true, yet still predictable, post about how Forum Search functions are notoriously flawed and the point that, even if someone were to find a Chris Angel post, it has likely been already closed do to the predictable chain of events that was beforehand mentioned by the first predictable post about how predictable these all are. This, of course leads to someone, me in this case, pointing out the predictability of even the predictability post which of course leads to the subsequent discussion of search functions which leads back to the predictable predictability of the "predictability post" whick leads back to the predictability of me. oh...wait...did I get that right?
Moral of the story
Chris Angel threads = Magicians' Ground Hogs DAY!!!
Moral of the story
Chris Angel threads = Magicians' Ground Hogs DAY!!!
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