Why is Borrowing an Object so VITAL?

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by MitchellStafiej, Sep 1, 2007.

  1. The idea of borrowing and signing an object came from a long time ago. But why is it so important? The fact that the item can't be duplicated puts the spectator at rest and at ease, it allows them to sit back without suspicion.

    A personal item is even better as it has a personal connection an allows for so many presentation and patter ideas.


  2. When you have someone sighn a quarter or someting it lets them know theres now way of you making or switching out another coin. And it'd be pretty had to be like "Im a magician, i make things dissapear. Can i show you a trick with your ring?" lolz, that'd be funny. =P
  3. I agree that having a signature or borrowing something makes an effect so much better. Or letting them examine everything before and after the effect. It makes it so harder-hitting. That's why I keep arguing with my friend about how starting an ACR with a double lift (yes, he doesn't have a card selected, he just double lifts to start) is a terrible way to do it.
  4. vital? i disagree. for example today i performed karate coin with a stone purse ending. reaction ? "you got to be kidding me" borrowed? no. signed? no.

    lets be more specific on what kind of effect that this helps, and why.
  5. also today i did coin to impossiable location, locked box in a sealed bag. with a barrowed signed coin. now in this case it is vital cause it tells the spec its the same coin. lets get this forum off to a good start and think post through instead of posting half thoughts that mean little.
  6. the borrowed object is more powerful because in a spectators mind the object belongs to them, there is no way it can be prepared or gaffed in some way because it belongs to them and not the magician. the signing makes the object signed unique in their mind... meaning that it has the spectators seal of approval in a way and thus to them it says "i have inspected this and it is ordinary, and by putting my name on it i he/she (the magician) cant switch it for another object with out me knowing that he/she has changed it."
  7. Tricks that require the coin or card disappearing and appearing somewhere else, it is best to have that card/coin signed.
  8. It is not "vital" at all. Maybe it is eventually, but not really. Everything depends on your execution of the effect, your performance, your patter, everything to combine the effect to be presented to the spectator.

    Yes you can borrow an object but sometimes it isn't really necessary, but sometimes does enhance the power of the effect.

    If your execution is as flawless as can be, there shouldn't be any questioning about whether if you can do it with a borrowed object.

    Borrowing an object though is indeed a strong suit in itself after the effect, because it gives the spectator that "bond" and that involvement in the effect, and sometimes, thats all the spectators need.

  9. its less about the coin and more about the routine. i used the stone purse finish cause it misdirects from the coin. how did i stick my finger throught the coin? its just a illsuion, *vanish* even the purse is a illusion its made of stone. everyone is now shocked and is examining the purse. no heat on the dirty hand with vanished coin and gaff
  10. The magician has a sort of impact on the spectator once he/she does something with a borrowed item. It instantly makes the spectator think of sleight of hand or real magic, instead of gimmicks. You can use gimmicks that aren't seen (raven, xpert, thumb tip) and they will think the trick's even better.
  11. if they are thinking slight of hand you already lost them. if you need borrowed items to achieve your lacking somthing. im not saying there is no value in them, but there are many many other things that add to effect by much more
  12. No, you haven't lost them. If you perform a self-working trick and make them think it's sleight of hand, then they will think you are very talented. Very few people fall for the "real magic" gig anymore.
  13. i have to agree with you on that its pretty much exactly what i was going to say
  14. da you don;t have to make them think real magic. you want them to be amazedd. or in wonder. who cares if they think your talented. i think your really missing the point my friend. try some text on magic performance and not tricks such as darwin ortiz strong magic. if you think you can;t get people to beleive the impossiable you got a long way to go
  15. In my opinion, borrowing a borrowed object that has sentimental value makes the magic better because it includes the spectator personaly.Imagine u make a wedding ring disapear and reappear in a sealed glass bottle then using a borrowed coin.Which one is better?
  16. When it comes to borrowing coins, though, I don't think it matters, so long as you allow the spectator to examine the coin you'll be using.

    Sometimes, as magicians we OVER-PROVE by having everything borrowed and signed. It's okay to use our own stuff! Just pass around what you can.

    (from the Vanishing Rabbit)
  17. if the routine has a reason why your using there ring, provided by showmanship, that would be great. but if its just for your own comfort it won;t matter. all you guys seem alittle scared that your gonna get caught. if they think gaff, then maybe the gaff is over used. i did justin millars triune a few times, after some performances it became evident that it was just too perfect and the gaff was clear. i don't dp\o that routine any more.

    start thinking what can i do with my routine to make it more deceptive. different handling? a extra effect within? for magicians you could even use feints.

    i don;t know about all of you but i want people to think how is that possiable? not marvel at my skill. what could you do with your magic to chnage those things? a signed coin only distracts from the method, and that can be good, but what can you do to distract from reality
  18. I think you should really use a signed coin/object if it doesn't remain in sight at all times. Such as Sinful, which is really brought out by the signed coin.

    A lot of great effects use duplicates that aren't signed, it's all up to the performer.

  19. I don't do Sinful. But I do other coin stuff. Borrowing a coin is not VITAL. But it heightens the effect especially if you enphesize on the borrowed object "And this is your quarter right?" etc. You can't do this too much, but do it as much as possible. It's a insight of Jay Sankey.

    Coin magic looks too good with gaffs, the way you handle your props is the key to make coin magic works.

    Effects like Sinful doesn't need to use borrowed coin. It's not VITAL, but it's just heightens it.
  20. Borrowing objects like coins, pens or bills, is NOT vital, if you ask me. There's such a thing as assumption: nobody knows about machined coins, specially printed bills or the like.

    Signing objects? If it involves impossible location (Card to Wallet, Bill to Lemon), or revolves around the signature itself (Anniversary Waltz), I believe it to be a big contributor to the impact of the effect.

    A lot of releases in recent times pride themselves on examinability of props, or the signing of a card, when oft it's running when one isn't chased. Ever heard of audience management?

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