I am thinking for the little guys who don't have as much knowledge. Do you know what people are doing right now? People are encouraging people to go on YOUTUBE and learn this cut. Whoah whoah whoah.... Where have I been? Last time I checked people said not to go on Youtube for any tutorials. Now that it's released in HD by Joel Paschall for money, all of a sudden we should all go on Youtube? Well... I sense some hypocrisy there.
-Doug
Listen... nobody is forcing anybody to buy these 1 on 1 videos. Personally, I think a beginner should get these videos. It's up close and personal instead of through text. Joel is a great teacher in this video.
Chances are, Theory 11 staff member have seen this. Why don't they respond? Most likely they don't care. What is someone like JB supposed to do? Pop in here and say "Masters. I apologize for not giving you more advanced 1 on 1 videos. We will try to serve you better next time." Please...
I know you didn't mean to start anything with me, but today has been crazy on this forum because of this one cut. IT'S JUST A 1 on 1 VIDEO! There is no one forcing you to buy it! Just ignore it if you don't want it! We don't need a bunch of people saying it's garbage! I like it. You might not. There is a difference of opinion. I'll have my opinion and you can have yours.
There's no hypocrisy at all. Nobody has ever said you shouldn't learn cuts on Youtube, they have only said this about magic. If somebody creates a cut they can do whatever they want with this. Magic has secrets but flourishes don't. You can't 'expose' a flourish.
This flourish does have secret that is used when you do magic, it's card control... And you dont think that beginners will think this way: "Oh, so i can learn a card control flourish on youtube, hmmm... let's see what else can i learn from there".... ???
Squ!rrel, on one point I'd beg to differ - the same as Toby, exposing a flourish, I believe you can - In the same way that it's unethical to learn magic tricks off YouTube, it's considered unethical to take a performance of a flourish which is NOT intended as a tutorial, slow it down, and learn the move from watching the slow motion of a performance (i believe this is unethical). In this sense, a flourish's "secret" is its exact handling, grip and technique and I think this can be revealed.
The reason so many people are getting upset with this 1 on 1 is that T11 will sell a glorified double undercut but nowhere on this site does it even mention one of the many great books or DVDs made by other people that would be a far more helpful for a beginner.
It's not an issue of price, they can charge what they like, they're a company, the best way to tell them it's too expensive is not to buy it. More or less the same with the content, they can sell what they like, there are no legal implications, they just have to be aware that they risk damaging their reputations if they sell stuff that people think they shouldn't be.
What I would like to see T11 do is to start telling their customers that there are other great products out there other than just what's sold on this site.
"Two simple, effective, and - most importantly - deceptive card controls"
The above statement is to me the BIG LIE - this cut, or whatever it is Joel is selling, is neither simple, nor effective and most importantly not a deceptive card control. A control by definition must be a secret move, not a flashy demonstration of skill. I mean, what happened with basic magic principles...
It may be geared toward the beginner, I don't mind that. T11 can charge whatever they want for it, it's their business. You can buy it or not. But T11 should not deceive the audience, especially the beginners, who may rush to learn this "simple, effective, and - most importantly - deceptive card control" before they learn something more simple, more effective and more deceptive like a double undercut or an overhand shuffle control.
The most shameful thing here is the people advocating just learning the cut for free on YouTube. These are the same people who would have gutted anyone suggesting such a thing a week ago.
Everyone has a price at which they will trade their integrity. It seems for you guys, that bar was pretty low because you sold it for 5 bucks.
Ah yes, the Theory 11 forums. A shining beacon of artistic integrity, vastly superior to all other websites. A place where all members seek to promote an ideal of advancing magic through creativity, community, and ethics. I wonder what alternate universe it exists in?
IIf this was a magic effect then I would never suggest that somebody learn it off Youtube
Nobody has has ever suggested that learning cuts on Youtube is unethical, if somebody creates a cut they have every right to teach it.
In fact when somebody asks about learning flourishes they are usually referred to flourishes taught on Youtube and Decknique. These cuts will prepare somebody for a DVD such as The System which would be exceptionally difficult for a complete beginner to learn from.
Kevin Ho has posted some of his cuts on Youtube, how is it any way unethical to suggest that somebody learn these? Just because it's on Youtube doesn't make it wrong.
If this was a magic effect then I would never suggest that somebody learn it off Youtube, a 'public domain' cut is very different.
At what point does something become public domain, out of interest?
You mean like a double undercut?
At what point does something become public domain, out of interest?
- Sean